Opinions of old-timers back in 1980 on Duran as a lightweight. Interesting indeed.

:good

 

MDWC's was funny! Scousers have a very wry sense of humour,except about soccer!

 

What a successful absorbing thread ,6 pages with great input from the likes of Henry Hascup,well done Robbi!

 

exactly what I have been saying. So what makes Duran so great? Losing to Leonard,Hearns,Benitez and Hagler?

 

Sigh...:roll:

 

That is exactly right. His lightweight competition was terrible. and still people say he is the greatest fighter p4p ever. A guy the greatest ever would have found a way to beat Benitez and Hearns. He didn't So what makes him the p4p best ever?

 

The win was eliminated by losing by 8th round quitting. If Duran really was dominant over Ray he would have duplicated the win and probably stopped Ray, instead Ray proved he fought the wrong style in the initial fight.

 

Duran was overrated.

 

I have always said that about Duran. His lightweight competition is not that great. His dominance against the lesser caliber guys has overrated him. He fought well at lightweight, but his opposition was less.

 

MAGS I could bet you have not seen squat of the fighters you are talking about (Im not referring to Duran).

No one is saying Roberto had a strong era to be dominant in, compared to many of the ones mentioned it doesnt stand up that well. But actually looking into the fighters he fought, watching them on film and seeing how they went in other fights you can clearly see they werent to bad..some were very good.

A lot of Duran's pre-Leonard work was very good and flys under the radar quite often. He beat several of the top 140 contenders in his non-title affairs in between his defenses..Before he was even champ he beat Marcel and Kobayashi two greats in their own right.
To many times people just hone in on his title defences and put the blinkers on regarding his other excellent wins at the time.

As I say time and time again people get to hung up on the raw numbers...

 

Arcel is the only one who got it right IMO. He's right in the mix with any of the all-time lightweights, but not a clear cut #1 (contrary to what many people today claim).

Personally, I think Leonard, Williams, Armstrong, and perhaps even Whitaker were just as good, and I'd probably favor any of them over Duran in a H2H matchup.

 

Seems a bit strange that the career losses of Duran, all but one coming after 12 dominant years as a professional boxer are reflective of his career.

 

Really amazing. I would have thought Duran would be rated higher in '80.

http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Gans-Biography-American-Champion/dp/0786439947

 

I've always thought that as well.

He did beat some good, respectably talented contenders - ie: Viruet, Fernandez, Thompson - but his opponents seemed like they were cut from the same mold, slick boxers who really couldn't punch. Duran was able to just storm right in on them and bully them around as he pleased. The best boxer-puncher he fought at lightweight was DeJesus, and although he was a good puncher, he wasn't exactly a spectacular one IMO - yet he beat Duran in their first fight, dropped him again in their 2nd, and convinced him to change his style in the third.

I don't think we got to see all aspects of Duran truly tested at this weight. For example, how would he do against a fellow pressure fighter like Armstrong or Chavez, who would go inside and match his strength, and were possibly better and more polished inside technicians? How would he handle someone like Ike Williams, who could step in and counter his aggression with wicked body shots (probably more powerful than what DeJesus hit him with)? I've always felt Duran used to leave his body open as he came storming in, and body work was a big part of Leonard's and Benitez's own wins over Duran, albeit at higher weights.

vs. Whitaker is a tough fight to call too. On one hand, I could see Duran simply not showing respect for Pea's power and just swarming furiously all over him all night to win a decision. But at the same time, I can see Pea getting his respect with some good, sharp counters (Pea was an underrated puncher at this weight) and frustrating and discouraging him.

I think people make a lot of assumptions about Duran at this weight based on his alarming success at higher weights. No question, he did achieve more above 135 than any other lightweight ever (only Armstrong comes close). However, I think many people think along the lines of, "Well, Hagler and Barkley hit him with everything but the kitchen sink up at 160, so that must mean he was indestructable down at 135." Now granted, that makes sense, but consider that lightweight is where Duran was floored the first two times in his career, by only a decent puncher in DeJesus, and he showed a lot of uncharacteristic respect for his power in their 3rd fight. Is it possible making weight left Duran's chin not as good as it was at the higher weights?

Also, I don't think Duran really reached the height of his powers until just before he left the weight, in his last fights with Viruet and DeJesus. Before that, I feel he didn't yet have the range of skills and versatility that he would show up at 147 against Leonard and Palomino and in his career thereafter.