Calzaghe vs Robin Reid (vid)

Thank you (kind of).

If you venture into the Brit Forum of an evening, you will find people who think Calzaghe was comparable to Jones in terms of h2h ability. Seriously.

 

But he was still **** hot and deserves his name to be remembered as it will be you must admit ?

 

Yeah, been there done that. But, shouldn't you acknowledge that it is the same exact "Joe dick suckers" posting BS over there that post all the same dumbass **** over here?

In the face of extremist nuthuggery, there are more than a few reasonable, sensible, boxing fans on the Brit Forum that take the opposing (correct) view. Unfortunately, they never (or rarely) visit the general forum to shoot down their own. So, mostly, only the truly moronic Brits can be found on the GF.

I've been following Calzaghe's career longer than most posters (as the ESB posting pop is skewed toward the young - the first real-time (closed-circuit projection screen) fight I saw was Ali-Frazier I) and certainly most Americans (as I have Welsh family on one side).

But, ESB is almost completely non-representative of the kinds of opinions, poll results, and consensus you would get from a room full of professional athletes IMO (I pitched (started) at a major US university in baseball - and have talked & watched (heavyweights usually) boxing with lots of players).

It may not be specific to ESB but obviously great fighters/athletes are often denigrated here in direct comparisons with (merely) good fighters and athletes. I don't think I would ever feel compelled to point out Joe's relative shortcomings if others wouldn't try and minimize a RJJ (for example). It is an absurdity to say "Joe is great, just as great as RJJ". It would be appropriate & correct to say "RJJ is great, and Joe is pretty good too". It is hard to be a positive JC supporter when things are so friggin' over the top around here. There are either some very deep-seated discriminatory issues at play or the worst collection of non-athletes posting as sport afficionados ever assembled.

If this was a golfing board I am convinced that this group of ESB posters would be saying Tiger Woods isn't all that good.


While you have your own strong, clear opinions, at least you always have good analysis and it is built upon a discernible foundation. Your posts often make a very good read.

Cheers. Time for dinner.

 

Exactly when do you think Calzaghe was Prime?.

You've went to a lot of trouble pointing out that Hop or Roy never struggled with anyone of the caliber of Reid in their Primes. Thats fair enough, but im assuming then you think Calzaghe was Prime in 1999.


He wasnt for me, so edging out Reid, injured and in your 4th title fight, is hardly something that can be used as some indication of how and why Calzaghe pales into insignificance with Hop and Roy when as you point out later in your post a prime Roy was giving fits by Griffin for 8 rounds and Hop(Shy of prime for me) was taking two attempts to get rid of Mercado.


Maybe ToffeJack doesnt use Calzaghe off prime,injured and looking **** when making his comparisons. If he did maybe you two would come to the same conclusion or at least start from the same place.


If you are using any Calzaghe when debating how a fight with Prime Hop and Roy would go then no wonder you cant understand how some people think he could give them more than a decent fight.

If people were using any Roy or Hop when debating how a fight would go against a Prime Calzaghe im sure you would get some very different opinions. Or you could just check Boxrec.

 

The Calzaghe v Reid fight is an example of why Calzaghe is a great boxer.

Calzaghe was bitter that Reid refused to face him when holding the WBC World title, Reid went into the Calzaghe fight with a record of 25 wins and 1 defeat, both boxers disliked each other, Reid was controversially picked for the Olympics infront of Calzaghe, Reid won the bronze, Calzaghe may have won the Gold ? {the authorites did not like Calzaghes flash showboating style in the amateurs, and would not have allowed Joes father in the corner}

When Reid held the WBC title he did not want no part of Joe Calzaghe, but once he lost his title he was happy to have a shot a Joes WBO crown, this is similar to Hopkins and Roy Jones back in their prime not entertaining Calzaghe as the risk reward was not good, yet once they had lost their crowns they were only too happy to take on Joe.

Calzaghe fought Reid in England, although the Brits tend to come together and support each other when a British boxer takes on an overseas boxer, there is huge sporting rivalry between the Celts and the Anglo Saxons, Calzaghe went into the lions den that night, yet he won.

Calzaghe was reportedly suffering from food poisoning, yet he won.

Calzaghe broke his hand early in the fight, yet he won.

This fight proves Joe Calzaghe to be a great boxer, he overcame a strong highly motivated opponent away from home, suffering from food poisoning and amazingly with a broken hand he suffered early in the fight, he still won the bout, most boxers even great ones would have lost in the same situation.

For people that like creating 'all time great lists' Joe Calzaghe is hard to rank as people will point out he only beat Hopkins and Roy Jones at the end of their careers in fairness Calzaghe was also at the end of his career.
If people have reservations about his resume, head to head he is fantastic, as he always finds away to win, he works opponents out and finds away to win no matter what the circumstances, Calzaghe had won 23 out of his first 25 fights by either KO or TKO before the Reid bout when he broke his hand, {Calzaghe's tenth fight was an eight round points decision and his 23rd fight against Eubank,went to points, although he did knock Eubank down}
After the Reid fight, Calzaghe continued to have problems with his hands, it is at this point that Joes career stalls somwhat, Joe brakes his hand again in the 3rd round of a title defence against Ashira yet Calzaghe still wins, the Ashira fight was the fight before the Jeff Lacey fight, in the Lacey fight Calzaghe famously threw over a 1000 punches, Joe had adapted to his hand problems and used this swarming high volume punch style to beat Kessler, Hopkins and Roy Jones, if Joe had not suffered his hand injury against Reid i wonder what turn his career would have taken ?.

 

Fighting with a broken hand isn't a valid reason for being below your best but being closer to the sun is?

 

Ive only seen the fight once,on the night it was on tv.I had it for Reid but it was close.I remember it being quite a dirty fight with Reid getting warned a lot and possibly deducted a point.I still thought he had won it though.It was a decent fight and good to watch.

 

well I watched last night - and thought that although there were 1 or 2 swing rounds - I did have it for Joe by 1 or 2 rounds - and happy about it. Maybe he should have given a rematch - but whatever, it was a good scrap - and the fact joe was able to make it so close - and win in my eyes, with a badly damaged hand from round 4 onwards - says a lot about joe...

 

Calzaghe was a very good fighter in many respects, but he also let himself down in other areas. I give him his due credit of course, but for me he's not "The Greatest British Fighter Ever" as the tabloid rags seem to love shouting about (not even the best from Wales! Jimmy Wilde holds that distinction in my opinion).

His resume is decent, but not outstanding enough to warrant him as the ATG he's made out to be. Reid, Woodhall, Brewer and Mitchell are acceptable wins of note, but not enough to elevate beyond the stratosphere of mere mortals.
The Eubank win was a good achievement at the time, but on closer analysis the scales were heavily tipped in Joe's favour - Eubank took the fight at just under two week's notice, had previously been boxing at 175 and had to come down to 168, and was in the closing stages of his career anyway, whilst Joe was the younger, fresher fighter on the way up. As I say, still a good win to beat Eubank especially in the tough fight that it was, but not quite the same achievement in reality as it looks on paper.

Joe's best performance, and one of the best performance's I've ever seen from a British fighter, came against Jeff Lacy. However, in hindsight Lacy was never the monster he was hyped up to be (though at the time I did actually tip Calzaghe to win by 10th round stoppage). Big, strong and tough yes. But coming in off wins over a shot Reid and Scott Pemberton may have flattered Jeff's aura somewhat. He was basically a walking punch-bag that night - and a lot of the credit must go to Joe for that - and I feel history will look back at the Lacy win moreso as a great performance rather than a great legacy enhancing victory, especially in light of what Lacy has gone on to achieve since (i.e nothing).

The Kessler win was a very good win, although I feel it was a little closer than the judges had it. Kessler also went into that fight with nerve damage in his right hand (though he graciously denied this at the time so not to discredit Joe, but I know for a fact it was injured and he had surgery about two weeks after the fight).
Depending on what Kessler goes on to achieve from here, we will have a better gauge to judge how good a victory that was.

The Hopkins fight...well kind of sick of debating about this one. You either felt B-Hop won or you didn't. Personally he landed the better quality shots for me whilst Joe's shots were mostly ineffective or didn't land (argue amongst yourselves, I really can't be bothered with this one again!).

The RJJ fight is about as much a significant victory as Camacho's over Leonard or Berbick's over Ali.

Thus to date, the only fights that mean anything to Joe's legacy are Hopkins and Roy Jones simply because they are the only two fighters on his record who have made any major significant impact to the history of the sport. And what will Joe be remembered for - winning a close, controversial split decision against a 43 year old man who he refused to rematch to clear it up and set the record straight, and a shot, over-the-hill fighter who was coming in winning only three of his last six.

As far as talent and skills,etc go, Joe had many good qualities but many poor ones too. His punching technique left a lot to be desired. In his early fights he would often club opponents rather than clean punching, and quite often these would land around the back of the head.
He more often than not used the inside of the glove, rather than the legal scoring area of the knuckle part (hence the slapping accusations), and a lot of his flurries lacked quality, clean accurate shots. He would hit a lot of arms, elbows, gloves, etc but due to the speed and intensity of his flurries he would often be given the benefit of the doubt from refs/judges.

Joe did have great stamina and work rate, good speed, heart, desire and will to win though. Also when he wanted his footwork was top notch too.

So Joe Calzaghe - a very good fighter with a decent record, but not the greatest ever with a sparkling resumé.

 

indeed. i was just going to note how happy pacfan was to give bernard a free pass for his **** poor performance against mercado but convinently forget to mention calzaghe fought a large chunk of that bout with a busted hand.

 

Why are you choosing to not mention the fact that Joe's hand was ****ed after 4 or 5 rounds?

And to the original poster that is NOT prime Calzaghe.

 

BBC Sport

This content is protected

Calzaghe's hand 'not broken'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sport/279246.stm


.....This must be like Mayweather's "torn" rotator cuff from Castillo I. :rofl Funny how 'certain' fans buy and sell the BULL**** anyway... Calzaghe made ZERO indication of any sort of hand injury after the fight, and neglected to mention ANYTHING of the sort ENTIRELY at ringside. Joe did invoke the excuse of an old "elbow injury" - NOTHING about his hand - not until he had time to think of it anyway. :rofl His hand was swollen ONLY, like every fighter after he throws hundreds of punches during the course of a 12 round fight..... Kelly Pavlik had Hepatitis C, Malaria, and Bubonic Plaugue when he fought Hopkins, BTW... :rofl

 

Calzaghe doesn't always fight his best but he always wins. Hopkins is undeniably quality still & Joe beat him. Therefore IMO Calzaghe was world class.

 

i have a couple of observations =

 

Not one person has pointed out the obvious differences between this Calzaghe & the guy who beat Lacy & Kessler.