Ggreb or Tunney?

Tunney looked better on film :shock:

 

Greb won the first fight easily.

By FAR most accounts favored Greb in the second fight. Even Tunney in his Autobio admits that there was something to Greb's cries of robbery which is why he gave him a rematch. Some accounts even suggest Greb won as handily as the first fight.

The third fight was close but clear win for Tunney even though Greb felt he was robbed in this fight as well.

Most accounts felt Greb won the fight in Cleveland.

Tunney handily won the fight in St. Paul.

For the record there was no Philly fight as someone above stated and Ive read every book on Tunney including both of the ones he wrote and dont recall him every saying he was out of shape for Greb. Training was Tunney's hallmark, he never came to a fight out of shape and to think he would have trained less for the first Greb fight which was his first really challenging fight (and he knew it) is ridiculous. But then again, Tunney had a lot of excuses and bull**** stories about his fights with Greb.

 

p4p Greb is higher, h2h Tunney might be better by thin margin

 

I think consensus on that Philla is that he wasnt even trying and that was anything but a serious sparring session.

Greb is always described a swarmer/brawler who lacks finesse..but got the job done against an almost unprecedented level of opposition.
There is enough film of the guys he beat to assume he knew what he was doing in there..whether it was pretty or not.

 

Everybody thought Greb looked like he didnt know anything about boxing. Even in his day. Its not how you look winning, its whether or not you WIN. Tommy Loughran looks very skilled and modern on film so because he looks good should we rate him over Greb based on how asthetically pleasing his style is? Even though Greb won their series?

 

but here is the link to

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of the first fight.

Gee, do you think Greb's description would be any different? Have you ever heard how many "descriptions" George Foreman has of his fight with Ali? Losers always have excuses, its how these ultra competetive guys cope with being able to climb back into the ring after being beaten. Tunney was cut above the eye? So does that mean Greb didnt cut him in their fight with a headbutt as Tunney always say (and most papers refute)? I seem to recall Greb being BLIND in one eye, smaller, older, and much much more ringwear... Oh yeah and Greb had bad hands too.

 

It is true that the looser always has some kind of excuse after the fight.

 

While the sparring footage dosnt make Greb look like a world beater it also dosnt show him fighting.

In one clip he is shodow boxing presumably to train his reflexes and is not aiming at any specific target.

In another he is engaged in some light sparring with a 60 year old Philadelphia Jack O'Brien and is presumably holding back to avoid hurting the old man.

 

Has anyone considered Tunney was pre-prime and not as seasoned coming into the earlier Greb fights while Greb was prime?

 

I think Tunney was pre prime but that Greb was already past his prime.

From there onwards farther time tipped the scales towards Tunney.

 

Since when is a fighter who is blind in one eye and a veteran of 200 fights considered in his prime?

 

Greb had already lost his eye by then, so I can't see how he could still be considered in his utmost prime.

However, most contemporaries seemed to feel that Tunney was too green-ish to beat someone like Greb, and by all accounts the fight played out that way. When Tunney did beat Greb in their rematch, it was a humongous upset. Accounts seem to agree that he did improve substantially over the course of those fights.


I think Tunney is being underestimated a bit in this thread. IMO he ranks among the very best LHWs ever, right alongside the likes of Moore, Charles, Spinks, etc. He was both very slick/skilled and also physically dominating at the weight - like a cross between Conn and Spinks. Then he went up to heavyweight and twice shut down an ATG champion in Dempsey. Something like that can't be overstated.

I don't agree that there's some kind of big difference in class between Greb and Tunney.

 

Where would you identify as being Grebs prime?

Personaly when I try to identify it I just get lost in his record.

 

While it's just a surmise, it looks like he was reaching his peak somewhere around 1918-1921, just before he suffered the eye injury against Norfolk. After that, I don't know if he lost his vision straightaway or if it went gradually.