Jeffries should gave Denver Ed Martin a title shot in 1903

This sums it up. Martin was not worthy of a title shot.

 

He was more worthy than Munroe and quite frankly he was probably more worthy than Corbett first time round.

 

Is Martin an uncrowned champion cheated by the colour of his skin?

No

Was he better than a lot of the contenders who fough for the title in that period?

Yes

Would he have fought for the title at some point if he had been white?

Almost certainly.

 

Janitor,

I do not think Martin would have earned a title shot if he was white while Corbett, Fitz, and Jeffries was champion. Martin was Ko'd often. I think Fitz, Sharkey, Jeffries, Choysnki and other contenders who can hit all KO him, so he might never get a world title shot. Maybe Martin would get a title shot, but it would be one of those in-between title shots, if and only if the money was right.

From 1903-1907, Martin's known record was three wins,and five losses, with four of those losses being KO defeats. In addition, Armstrong really won the ND 1902 fight in December, because he floored Martin six times in a short 5 round fight.

Ed Martin = Glass jaw, and really not a top fighter.

 

So you are saying from 1903-1907 3-5 with 4 ko losses is good?

Janitor,

Are you saying Martin did not have a glass jaw? Come one. Martin was quick and skilled, yet he has several early KO losses. Use your reason Janitor, he did have a glass jaw.

A top fighter to me is a top 5 guy. Martin was just a contender, and a one who was KO'd and knocked down way too often to be called a top fighter. Did Martin win some big matches? Sure. He had plenty of chances, but came up short in his biggest maches vs other top five guys except for a lone win over a McVey when he had a style advantage..

Martin was not better than Fitz, Corbett, Sharkey or Jeffries, so I doubt he beats any of them to earn a title shot. I think Choynski would startch him. Heck, Armstrong did KO Martin in 2.

As I said maybe if the money and timing were right, he would get a shot if he was white, but not from 1903-1907. Riddle me this, as any fighter received a title shot right after a KO loss? Not that I can recall, It would be rare. Armstrong flooring Martin six times in six rounds in December 1902 closed the door on Martin earning anything next, and from 1903-1907, he was KO'd four times. I think this is a case closed thread.

 

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One interesting factoid if that Martin fought Frank Childs for the couloured heavyweight title on the undercard of the Jeffries Ruhlin title fight but also server Ruhlin as a sparring partner for the same fight card!

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Martin was not anything like 6-7, maybe 6-4 at best. Hank Griffin was NOT seen as a contender AT THE TIME.
Ed couldn't take it to the body so his chances of beating Jeff were minimal and as he would not have been a great cash draw, Jeffries had no real reason to fight him.
He was however one of the top guys in 1902-03 and if he hadn't slipped so fast he could have forced himself as a legit contender and I further agree that he would give Corbett fits and was vastly better than Monroe.
Speaking of Ruhlin, reports say that Martin handled him easy in sparring and I think I even seen some film of their sparring once. In fairness to Gus, in a real fight the body-punches would come into it more.

 

It seems that Denver Ed Martin made a citizens arest of a murderer in 1900.

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But Jack Finnegan was?

 

"has any fighter received a title shot right after a ko loss?"

Jack Finnegan. He was ko'd by Gus Ruhlin.


Interestingly, Corbett was coming off two losses, the ko loss to Fitz and the DQ against Sharkey.

Ruhlin had suffered a crushing ko defeat to Fitz in 1900. His only fight after that before meeting Jeffries was a dreary ND affair with the fading Maher.

 

No he was not. Who says he was. Just another jab at a fighter you dislike McVey?

Jeffries bounced Finnegan out of there in 1 round. When a top fighter faces a journeyman, this should be the result.

So what is Johnson excuse for not doing the same in numerous fights, including some title fights?

I have seen you harp on Munroe acting as if he was not worthy. Maybe, but riddle me this. If Munroe was such a bum, why did Jeffries KO'd him hard in two when Munroe was at his best. Yet Johnson took an out of shape Munore the distance?

I see a huge disparity here. There's more. Jeffries KOing Griffin, and Johnson losing to him.

Or Jeffries blowing out a prime version of Pete mexican Everett, and Johnson taking a more shop worn version the distance.

Or how about the Choynski matches. Compare and contrast results?

Jeffires never lost to a lesser fighter. Johnson did several times.

 

I see you have risen to the bait,I knew you wouldn't be able to bear anyone criticizing Jeffries.
I said Finnegan was not worthy of a title shot and you agreed ,then you try to excuse it by saying ,
Jeffries kod him in 1 rd! Which rather proves my point!
Jeffries beat Griffin who had 7 fights ,but a good result for a young Jeffries [,though there is some doubt the fight took place.]Johnson lost to Griffin who had had 30 fights and drew in the return.
Shopworn Everett ,do me a favour! The man was in his prime when he met Johnson.Answer me this.
When Jeffries had his last fight as Champion against Munroe,1904 Johnson had wins over
Haines
Kennedy
Gardner
Russell
Martin
Childs
Ferguson
Mcvey
Butler
Everett
Who was more deserving of a chance in Jeffries last defence , Munroe , or Johnson?