I've always found it extremely interesting when, on their ways up, ATG's or damned good fighters run into fighters unwilling to lay down. The end result, a close call or even a potential robbery. What I'm looking for here are lesser known examples of that happening. How about Sonny Liston against Machen? Supposedly many ringsider observers feel Machen deserved the nod, as the commentary during the Machen/Frazier fight years later attests to.
I thought the Holmes - Norton fight coulda - shoulda gone the other way.Watched the Liston Machen fight,Machen went the limit,but imo,did nothing to merit a win.
The Truth was The Black Cloud was protected on his supposed run to 49-0 against Williams. SugarBoy Malinga did not feel so sweet after the first Benn fight. Everyone talks about Everett/Escalera being the classic hometown fighter being robbed, but Hardy/CanizalesI is up there too. Some felt Joe Louis was a little lucky against Tommy Farr.
I believe Harold Lederman had James Toney winning both of his fights against Montell Griffin. I never have scored either fight, but I did watch both when they were aired on HBO. I don't remember thinking Toney lost either fight convincingly. The first fight may have occurred on TVKO or HBO PPV, I honestly don't remember.
Here are some close calls for such scenarios: Meldrick Taylor vs. Howard Davis (had Meldrick winning by a point) James Toney vs. Reggie Johnson (had it a draw) Wilfred Benitez vs. Bruce Curry I (had Curry by a point) Alexis Arguello vs. Jose Luis Ramirez (had Ramirez by 2 points) Julio Cesar Chavez vs. Juan Laporte (had Chavez by 2 points) Wilfred Benitez vs. Carlos Palomino (Had Benitez by 1 point) Wilfred Benitez vs. Emiliano Villa (Had Benitez by a point after watching 14 rounds - missing one) Masao Ohba vs. Betulio Gonzalez (had Gonzalez by a point) Jung Koo Chang vs. German Torres II (had Torres by 3 points)
Exactly the type of post I was looking for. Thanks, Scientist. What are your general thoughts on Jose Luis Ramirez and Reggie Johnson, out of curiosity? Got to admire what Ramirez accomplished even though he was less then exceptional in just about everything except chin and willpower.
Cheers Russ. Arguello probably would have figured Jose out over 15, but it was a darn good effort in any case. If you played Ramirez's game (i.e. stood right in front of him and invited him to trade) he would be a hard nut to break down. His chin and will power as you say were top notch. As for Reggie, I liked his technician boxing approach, but he lacked too much in the way of physical strength and durability to really hang with the best at 160-175. Had excellent boxing skills though, especially in the early days.
Was probably looking to give Carlos a few of the closer rounds for effort, but I did think he was doing some pretty effective body work throughout.
this one is quite well known but overshadowed by another robbery to this fighter Whittaker vs Ramirez 1
absolutley not. AP gave liston 9 rounds, machen 3 rounds. In fact I have yet to hear a ringside report that didnt think liston clearly won. Liston won 9-10 rounds out of the 12. All 3 judges had it right around the same mark. Is that just a coincidence? Referee scored it 11 rounds to 1 in favor of liston and the other two judges had it 10 rounds to 2 in favor of liston. Take away the 3 penalty points and its still a clear liston decision. I myself have scored the fight. I had it 9 rounds to 3 liston and take away 3 penalty points thats 117-114 Liston
Russell, I think a good fight to bring up is Bob Foster-Jorge Ahumada. some Ringsiders has it 13 rounds to 2 for Jorge.