Does Julio Caesar Chavez make the Top 20 All-Time

If both are top 5, then one of Robinson, Langford, Greb and Armstrong isn't. Which is it? I don't believe it is at all legitimate to have Pep or Ali above any of those four. And for me, a top 5 without Ezzard Charles is a crime. His resume is incredible.

 

Good man, spread the word, Pep was in a class of his own as a boxer.

 

Ok, though I still think it's more reasonable to put Pea over Pep than it is to put Chocolate over Leonard (even though as I said, I have Pep ahead).

Seriously, how did YOU score the fight? I had Canzoneri winning 147-139. Richard Vidmer has himself a case of jungle fever.

He does look good, and has every element of a modern fighter, but Leonard himself looks pretty modern I'd say, and his footwork looks brilliant by whatever standard you care to judge him on. His Handspeed and feinting ability also look top notch.

Rock is a great fighter, I don't have a real problem with a ranking in the 33 really, but I do think some guys weighing 185 could beat him. Not sure I'd favour anyone to beat him there, but I wouldn't rule it out.

He looks good at the weight against LaBarba and Battling Bat, but I don't think I'd have him above the likes of Saddler, Sanchez, Nelson and Saldivar at the weight. He likes to trade too much. Not sure I'd have him ahead of a few boxer types at the weight either.

 

Not one... two... Langford & Greb.

I like to see with my own eyes at least a small amount of footage to compare with whats been written about the fighters as there is with Robbo, Pep, Ali, Armstrong & Duran - my top 5.

Am I saying that Greb & Langford should be forgotten ?... no, of course not... but they have plenty of support elsewhere & make plenty of other lists so until some miraculous piece of extended film surfaces, I dont see these guys losing their place on my list & Pep & Ali are well deserving of a high ranking because of the sheer art they showed in the ring while becoming numero uno in their historically talent packed weight classes - FWT & HWT.

:thumbsup

 

So you like looking at Pep get knocked down, quitting, and outboxing good to average fighters?

 

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I thought he looked very good in the last 2 Saddler losses when you consider things like, opponent quality, style & when these fights happened.

I also think Pep`s style on film proves correct all written accounts of him before the plane crash just as Robinson`s MWT footage is enough to show us that his WWT days likely are not exaggerated.

:good

 

Pep was also ahead on the scorecards in the 3rd and 4th Saddler fights, but Dislocated Shoulder is very painful and in the 4th fight Saddler nearly blinded pep with dirty thumb tactics, saddler should have been DQed...Pep was outboxing him badly so saddler got dirty that was his only way, and pep obviousely retaliated. Great fighter Saddler was though. Too bad the first and 2nd fights arnt on film, those are the two fights were watching. Pep was of course past his prime for these, after suffering permanant damage in plain crash. Amazing he ever fought again. If you watch Saddlers other fights, he utlizes his height and reach very well, stiff jab, Excellent two fisted puncher, blistering handspeed, and very strong and aggresive.



Sweet Scientist. Always enjoy talking with you. If your talking about Pep Film getting knocked out, I trust your talking about Lulu Perez, but Pep took a dive in that fight. I don't know if Hogan Kid Bassey fights on film, but I believe Pep was pretty old and outboxed the champ for 9 rounds before getting caught cold. But if you watch the other film, Pep is pretty dominating, even against a top 3 featherweight great like saddler you can see pep outbox him most of the fight. Pep cleaned out a difficult featherweight era in the 40s and beat some TOUGH world class contenders, too bad the fights arnt on film like humberto seirra, phil terranova, or Chalky Wright.

You know what Bud, I am going to trust your intake and rescore it. then I ll get back to you.

 

I'd say no, but Bert Sugar has him at 17 I believe, and Pernell Whitaker at 48 with George Foreman in front of him.

 

Thats wrong, plain & simple, & this guy is supposed to be an expert ? :huh

Whitaker & Chavez should be within 6 or 7 places of each other on any ATG list & neither should be outside of a top 20 list IMO.

 

Top 20 140lbers sure, top20 All time at any weight, not in the ballpark

 

I don't have top 25 P4P list, but if I did, I don't envision having a place for Julio Cesar Chavez. His technical ability is often overlooked, but Pernell Whitaker totally dominated him, as did Meldrick Taylor. He had a few other decisions go his way, and his record was padded during the early years. All-time great, no questioning that, but he would be about top 40-50 for me.

 

Harsh... but mostly true.

(the things not true are that Taylor 'totally dominated' him and the ranking of 40-50 which for me is a little low, but your post still does strike to the heart of the matter: not top 20 material)

 

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