What if the following fighters had been white?

How about if Marciano had been Black?

 

I don't see much difference in terms of career paths, although Langford would of certainly been an official world champion as I'm sure is obvious.

Obviously Johnson & Louis in terms of outside the ring, they wouldn't have the credit they get for changing the way black fighters were perceived. Could that affect their legacy at all?

 

Jackson gets to fight Sullivan and wins the title.
Johnson wins the crown in 1904 ,and hold it for ELEVEN YEARS.
Langford wins the Middleweight crown ,,the Light Heavy crown and,has two or three shots at the Heavy title but does NOT win it.
Wills gets his chance against Dempsey and gets knocked out in 8 rounds.
Louis defends against NO Black contenders.

 

Unforgiveable Whiteness just leaves PBS audience's scratching their heads.

 

If Jack Johnson had been white there could hardly have been so much uproar over him sleeping with white women, could there?

If they had been white the well-behaved subdued Wills and Louis who were praised for going along with the rules of white society would probably been percieved as dull and uninteresting while Johnson given his lifestyle on the other hand would have been a folk hero and seen as a great character in the same way as Sullivan, Ketchell, Walker or Baer.

As for their careers inside the ring there couldn't have been any way of denying Jackson, Langford and Wills their welldeserved titlebouts.

And I doubt anyone would ever have thought of calling Joe Louis "A credit to his race"

 

Peter Jackson
Not much difference. He probably does get the rematch with Corbett (although would Corbett have fought him in the first place if he was white?). I get the feeling that Corbett may have ducked the rematch for quite a while and that Jackson may still have turned to the drink, anyway. if He did fight and beat Corbett, it would have improved his legacy a little, particularly if he didnt drink as a result and he ended up fighting on and winning until he fought JEffries. Still there are other variables, how much would it have hurt him if he did drink and fought and lost to Fitzsimmons?

Jack Johnson
I doubt that he would have done enough to earn a shot at Jeffries. Firstly, he was a slow developer, and needed the choynski fight to start improving. Presumably fighting the black challengers often and regularly is what helped this improvement. Being white, this would not have happened and we may have seen him take much longer to develop or he may not have even fought enough to become the great that he did. Also, how is it possiple that he would clean the white challegers out like he did with the black challengers, because he lost to choynski and Hart. I suppose he could reverse these results and that would help his standing massively. But the next problem is jeffries if he loses to a prime Jeffries, his stock goes down again. If he is white, he doesnt get to beat an old Jeffries which did help his legacy. If he beats a prime Jeffries it certainly helps him, but dont forget, it means that Jeffries goes from an unbeatable knockout machine to a large bully, who lost to the first person who stood up to him, and a champion with few fights. In some ways, JOhnson is just as well off (legacy wise) by having the prime jeffries question unanswered. The black dynamite crew is an interesting one. If Johnson cleaned the white challengers and decided to fight them early, he would clean them up like he already did, but he would still be criticised for not fighting them later on when he looked for challengers that made money. It is interesting though, would he be given more credit for cleaning up the black challengers just because he was white (and therefore a champion at the time) i tend to think he may have which would make him an exception to the general rule that black fighters currently get more credit. If he ducked them, it would probably pretty much ruin his legacy. so in conclusion i think that he was better off being born black, from a legacy point of view.

Sam Langford

This is a tough one. Langford may get a shot at Marvin Hart, when Jeffries retired, or even at jeffries himself. If we assume that he beats Hart, what does this do to his legacy. He could very easily become a Tommy Burns style fighter and bow out with a record similar to Tommys, as he would have probably fought Johnson when Burns did, and the result could have been the same as when they actually met. He also may have drawn the colour line, but history would not have been kind to him if he had dont this with Johnson and Co knocking out all the available challengers. IN fact i dont think it would even be continued to be possible for the length of Sams Reign. If he didnt get the shot at Hart, then he meets Johnson for the title, early in his career and again you really have to expect the fight to go the same way as their actual fights. Realistically both options drop his legacy massively (particularly when you think that he does not have the black dynamite series). But, saying this, it is possible and maybe even likely that after losing to Johnson, he does fight and beat the dynamite crew and maybe even Wills and this could earn him a shot at an old JOhnson. A loss pretty much shatters his legacy (compared to what it is today). A win certainly helps it, but how much i am not sure. Certainly, i dont think it would result in him being held in much higher esteem than he currently is. I do think that he may have had a better chance at winning a world title though and may have improved his quality of life.

Harry Wills
Now here is someone with a lot to lose. First and most importantly, he will not get to fight langford more than 3 or 4 times. Given that Langford knocked him out in the first 3 or 4 meetings, this shatters his legacy.

The plus side is that he can get a shot at being a Willard and at beating Dempsey. But even if he gets these two results he cant erase the Lanford results. He may even defend against and beat an old Langford but would get no credit because of langfords condition by this time. His win over Johnson would mean nothing because of his age. The win over Dempsey would mean nothing because Dempseys reputation would be ruined by the loss. A willard win would just be a win over a big lug. He could beat Tunney but this would mean nothing because tunney would not be a champion. Even if he kept winning, his early losses would effect him massively and sometime he would get old and lose to a fighter who turned out to be not so great. Again this past prime loss would be unfairly used against him.

The other flip side is that we may also have the Lanford loss, but he may actually have lost to Dempsey or Sharkey or even Tunney. In which case wills would have been seen as no more than a Sharkey/Loughran/Heenan type contender at best. From a legacy point of view, i think Heenan has very little to gain.


Joe Louis
REalistically, i thin that there is zero difference, although the fact that he is white would mean that many people today unfairly suggest taht he wasnt as good as he was and less people rate him number one.

But, there is another possible downside. As a white, Louis would not only become a superstar, but he may not be as strictly managed as he was. He may not have been taken advantage of as much by managers and may have received more monies from his fights and not been as strictly regulated in his public behaviour. It is quite realistic that this could have resulted in extra partying etc and maybe, just maybe the great Joe Louis could have went the way of a Mike Tyson or so many other great champions, with his star burning out soon after he captured the world title. I consider this unlikely but it is possible.

 

If Marciano was Black everyone would rate him higher...if the other guys were white they would have gotten title shots and would have fought one another when Champ

 

Agreed that Marciano gets rated higher if black.

Ali would have been a fad if he'd been white... I think he'd have half the hype going for him.

A white Jack Johnson is an interesting thought.

 

Asumeing that the only diffrence is that they were white insted of black. That their talent was the same. Peter Jackson and Harry Wills would have been heavyweight champions. Jack Johnson would have gotten a shot at Jim Jeffries when he was still champion. Sam Langford would have been a multi-division champion. I don't think Joe Louis's career would have been much diffrent.

 

Would he have got the La Starza decision if he had been black? There is a train of thought that says he wouldnt have
Would he have been stopped in the Charles fight?
Would he have had to fight Wallace, Valdez, Baker, Satterfield, Walls etc? Fighters he would be favoured over in hindsight but certainly tough fights and guys that eliminated each other from title contention, possibly doing the same to Rocky

 

I think his legacy would be so much greater if he was black

 

Or maybe he would not have even got a shot at the title.

 

What do you mean Johnson would have held the title for 11 years????

He'd have been champion far longer, as he'd never have to defend against a Black Willard, or the other upcoming 'Black Jack' Dempsey.

:rofl