Marciano's Body Frame could easily be Tua and Tyson

I dont know, both seemed much bigger through the neck and just seem skeletally broader to me.
You may be right but I know growing up with a lot of Samoans that they are very predisposed to being physically very dense. I dont think a lot of people realise how heavyset they are as a race.

 

I agree that Marciano could have put on mass. Most fighters from his era consumed fewer calories than are needed to compete in a sport such as boxing, or so it seems.

I do have to say that I don't believe Marciano to be the size of Mike Tyson. Tyson looks quite a bit wider across the shoulders than Marciano does. Tua also looks to have a wider frame.

 

i thought tyson didn't touch weights until post prison, plus i heard his diet was pretty old school (need to verify this).

plus, pictures of a 12-13 year old tyson shows he's a naturally broader man than marciano, who of course was also broad.

 

Im pretty sure Tua was fighting as a heavyweight amateur at 16. I dont think you have been around a lot of Samoans.
Auckland is the largest Samoan city in the world, Ive played sport and grown up with them my whole life, they develop physically early. They along with the other Polynesian races dominate junior contact sport in New Zealand.

I dont believe Rocky had the same structure as Tua. Tua if he didnt train would go over 300lbs in a heartbeat

 

I don't think Marciano was quite as naturally big as Tua or Tyson, but certainly if he had trained like them in terms of weight-lifting and what have you, he could have been well over 200 pounds without being soft.

 

And he will be when/if he comes back

 

Tua is a bad example as has been pointed out by many.

The training theory though is interesting. I agree that rocky would weigh much more, similar to Tyson if he undertook the same training. The tricky question though and the one worth thinking about is would Rocky be better for it? Personally, i doubt it. I think that Tyson would be far better using Rockys training than vice versa. Nutrition advances, i can accept but i think that there is too much reliance on weightlifting to increase strength.

It is not as if Rocky couldnt hit hard enough to knock out fighters with his old training, but with the new training, i think that while he would be bigger, it would effect his stamina and workrate which is the key to his success.

 

What heavyweight trained like Marciano? That's why he wasn't heavy. Who else out there since has had had that kind of pre-fight conditioning for all those months Marciano would do for his fights?

 

The Rock fought at that weight because it was his only chance to be sucessful. Put on another 25 pounds and his stamina and workrate will go down the drain. He was never a speed demon and that extra flab/muscle will make him slower than he already was.

Marciano knew what he was doing and was very aware of his limitations. If he would have been able to execute his gameplan with the additional weight he obviously would have never been in the 180-190 's.

"Modern nutrition and training " is complete bull****. Healthy professional athlete diets then and now are pretty much the same. Case in point, contemporary bodybuilders like Steve Reeves were big guys then and would be big and muscular (roids or not) today. Fact. Genetics and proper training are not rocket science, either you got it or you don't.

Now, if you believe modern nutrion is roids , well, that is another kettle of fish. Anyway, Marciano roided up would be his own worst enemy = read above.

 

Rocky today would probably scale 210 or so. Maybe at a stretch 215. Any more than that would be counter-productive in my opinion.

It's worth noting that one or two fight reports of him as an amateur - where he did scale a bit over 200 - note that he appeared "soft" at that weight.

Personally, I don't believe he has the frame to carry more than 210 (maybe 215) well.

 

I like you suzieq49.

You keep saying "one poster said", when you mean me.

But i don't understand your total undaunted worship of Marciano. I like Foreman but not that much. I don't believe Foreman beats everyone. It's Just styles make fights.

Do you think JJW beats Joe Frazier?

You seem to hate Foreman. You seem to overrate Jersey Joe Walcott (who was a great) to overrate Marciano (who was also great). You seem to think Jersey Joe could just beat George (ala Young), but you use the worst version of George (the 1977 version) as a basis on why George loses to JJW.

The Walcott that lost to Maxim, Allen and Ray gets KO'd by George (you will probably still argue with that). See anyone can discredit a fighter.

Marciano was limited even for his time, there were far better skilled heavyweights than Marciano during his time and before his time. Jack Johnson (1910-1915) was far better skilled than Marciano and weighed 205 pounds when he beat Jeffries, Jack Sharkey, Max Schmeling were all better skilled than Rocky. The added weight would suit them better than Rocky.

Because you claim Rocky could weigh 210-220 doesn't mean a thing, because Rocky's style plays into a bigger more skilled Heavyweights hands. That's why Lewis would destroy Marciano, even the Douglas that beat Tyson had the style to beat Rocky.

Dempsey (1919-1923) if weighing 206 would still be faster than Marciano. Dempsey movement was better than Marciano. Rocky was not just crude v Cockell, he looked crude v Walcott as well, the Lastarza (first fight). Even against Moore (yes i was impressed with his unreleted pressure) but he did not look great technically.

Dempsey who fought Firpo just threw all his ability out the window and just slugged it out (e.g. Hagler v Hearns and still won) against a crude 6'2" power puncher that weighed 230 pounds. Dempsey knocked Firpo down 7 times in round one, during that time Dempsey got caught himself, it happens, no matter how crude a guy may be (Forrest v Mayorga anyone), only because Dempsey allowed it, he could of just moved but didn't. While Rocky can only fight one way, which he did very well, but he only had one way of doing it.

Suzieq you keep bringing up that Dempsey didn't fight the black fighters when he should have, yes i agree, but if a black fighter was the champion (like Jersey Joe), Dempsey would have fought them. Remember there is a picture that exists of Dempsey with Willis signing contracts for a fight that never came off.

Remember after Johnson no black Heavyweight got a title shot until Joe Louis.

I know Foreman can be beaten, just not by Jersey Joe or Marciano, but according to you George loses to both.

Now you are claiming Marciano's body frame can go up to 220 and be effective because of Tua or Tyson?

Tyson at 13 was heavier than Rocky was in his whole career. The heaviest Rock weighed was 188 pounds v Archie Moore. Remember for his 184 pound weight Rocky was slow for his size, while Dempsey at that weight was fast. Dempsey fought sometimes at 190+.

There is no evidence Marciano could good at 220, despite what you say. Because he weighed over 200 pounds when not training doesn't mean he could use that weight in the ring.

Both Tua and Mike could possibly beat Marciano. Tua is naturally bigger than Rocky despite being only 5'9" and 69 inch reach. Tyson is naturally bigger than Rocky, despite being 5'10" with a 71 inch reach.

Rock was 5'11" had a 67 inch reach and 188 pounds, his best wins coming against guys like Walcott (196 pounds), Moore (188 pounds), Charles (183 pounds).

 

Don't see it myself, genes.
Tyson and Tua have the 'brickshithouse islander gene'
Marciano's plain old Italian.

Different structures to them.