Frazier reflects on Thrilla, Ali

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bummy Davis, Apr 12, 2009.


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  1. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Frazier reflects on 'Thrilla', Ali


    Associated Press
    NEW YORK - Muhammad Ali described his third and final fight with Joe Frazier as "death, closest thing to dyin' that I know of."
    Frazier recalls their brutal matchup outside Manila, the Philippines, as something much less grandiose.
    "We just did our job," he said.
    The two great heavyweights always have been the yin and yang of boxing. Why should things change nearly 35 years later?
    Now 65 and walking with a cane, the slightly stooped Frazier reflected on the iconic fight in Quezon City on Oct. 1, 1975, during a wide-ranging interview. He also talked about the contentious relationship between the starring characters, which is the subject of an HBO documentary, Thrilla in Manila, which was to premiere last night.
    "I don't think Manila was my greatest fight," Frazier said forcefully.
    He ticked off several others in vivid detail, from the Golden Gloves to his gold medal at the Tokyo Olympics to the "Fight of the Century" - in which he beat Ali at Madison Square Garden in 1971 to retain the world heavyweight title.
    "The greatest fight was '71, when we were all undefeated," he said. "There was more money, more people. I don't know why they make this one out to be the biggest fight."
    When it comes to his longtime foil, Frazier is sympathetic to the suffering Parkinson's disease has caused Ali. But as a Christian, Frazier said, he isn't surprised by it, either.
    "I'm sorry that he is the way he is, but I didn't have too much to do with it. It was the good man above," Frazier said. "Maybe I did have a little to do with it, but God judges, you know what I'm saying? We don't have the power to judge that the man has above."
    The animosity that grew over the pair's first two fights reached a climax when, after the Philippines bout was announced, Ali pulled out a black rubber gorilla and famously launched into a poem: "It will be a killa and a chilla and a thrilla when I get the gorilla in Manila."
    "He kept saying, 'Joe Frazier, I'm going to whup you,' " Frazier recalled, still pained by the race-baiting attacks. "I said, 'All right, I'm going to wrap your butt up.' People loved him on the basis of his noise."
    Ali later tried to make amends, calling the mocking use of a gorilla a promotional ploy, and said that if "God ever calls me to a holy war, I want Joe Frazier fighting beside me."
    But the wounds ran deep, and while the two men have alternated apologies with attacks over the years, their relationship is still raw.
     
    Bummy Davis, Apr 12, 2009
    Bummy Davis, Apr 12, 2009
    #1
  2. Minotauro

    Minotauro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Frazier is right the first fight was the greater.
     
    Minotauro, Apr 12, 2009
    Minotauro, Apr 12, 2009
    #2
  3. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    True words. The only reason the first fight is much rarer shown or discussed is because Frazier won it and Ali took a beating. I think that was the greatest heavyweight fight of all time and it certainly was among the biggest in history, along with Louis vs Schmeling II. Man, i love that fight. The "Thrilla" is excellent, but nowhere near as good as the epic first one.
     
    ChrisPontius, Apr 12, 2009
    ChrisPontius, Apr 12, 2009
    #3
  4. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think the reason FOTC rarely being shown might have to do with rights issues. NBC seems to be sitting on the rights and maybe they're stingy with them. I feel pretty sure that this is the reason why ESPN Classic never shows it.
     
    Bokaj, Apr 12, 2009
    Bokaj, Apr 12, 2009
    #4
  5. ray fredrickson

    ray fredrickson Member Full Member

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    That First one was the Epic!!:happyBoth undefeated Olympic champs . Ali considered INVINCEABLE by his cult.Both proud Americans winning GOLD for USA!!!For me I was proud just getting back from one year of hell in Viet Nam!!:roll:So proud to see (the simple MAN) win for true boxing fans ,the silent majority!! Not ashamed to be Americans. Reminds me of Louis vs Schmeling 2!!:happy:happy
     
    ray fredrickson, Apr 12, 2009
    ray fredrickson, Apr 12, 2009
    #5
  6. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Was Ali very resented by Vietnam veterans for his stand on the war? How did you view it?
     
    Bokaj, Apr 12, 2009
    Bokaj, Apr 12, 2009
    #6
  7. ray fredrickson

    ray fredrickson Member Full Member

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    Reply to fellow boxing fan ,GENTLEMEN!! Thank you &God bless you. Viet Nam vets like everyone else ,were all different.Ali was Exceptional.. Case,He was the greatest (maybe ALL-time) true Ali wouldnt have got hazardous duty pay. &he did stand for his religion (BLACK FREEDOM &EQUALITY) .. But for that one shining moment a simple BLACK MAN ,captured a crown Kept from equality of ALL to win that CROWN!!!:admin:happy:happy:happy
     
    ray fredrickson, Apr 12, 2009
    ray fredrickson, Apr 12, 2009
    #7
  8. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ok. Thanks for the reply.
     
    Bokaj, Apr 12, 2009
    Bokaj, Apr 12, 2009
    #8
  9. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Welcome back. I have a lot of respect for Vietnam vets.
     
    ChrisPontius, Apr 12, 2009
    ChrisPontius, Apr 12, 2009
    #9
  10. mrbassie

    mrbassie Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It was Vietnam veterans who were at the very centre of the war protest and it was they who began it. That's something that was airbrushed from history: guy gets off a plane at san francisco airport, hippy girl with beads spits at him and calls him a baby murderer. That's not just a line in Rambo, it was actually a printed comic put out by the government. There's a great documentary called "sir! no sir!" on the subject, it's very enlightening and it just goes to show the power the media has on public perception.
     
    mrbassie, Apr 12, 2009
    mrbassie, Apr 12, 2009
    #10
  11. MrMarvel

    MrMarvel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    So Frazier believes God is punishing Ali for something. Maybe because Ali is a Muslim? Maybe because God likes Frazier and is getting even for the things Ali said about Frazier?

    I admire Frazier, but he's really pushing it with that stuff. Ali has a disease. That disease is causing millions of people around the world to suffer. It's got nothing to do with some supernatural force or balance.

    Frazier's comments just knocked him down a notch in my eyes - as a man, not as a boxer.
     
    MrMarvel, Apr 12, 2009
    MrMarvel, Apr 12, 2009
    #11
  12. MrMarvel

    MrMarvel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Both fights are great. Both are the two greatest heavyweights fights, in my opinion. However, the first one is marred by the fact that Ali played around too much. He clowned in several rounds. He was winning going away and then let it slip away. The second fight was both focused on the matter at hand. It's a slight advantage, but the thrilla in Manilla is the better fight. Not culturally, perhaps, but in terms of effort. Both gave it their all. Of course, it's not Frazier's fault that Ali clowned, but a fight takes two.
     
    MrMarvel, Apr 12, 2009
    MrMarvel, Apr 12, 2009
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  13. OBCboxer

    OBCboxer Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The FOTC was the greater fight because they were both unbeaten and there was more on the line. Ali took a beating Marvel, there's no denying he was beaten pretty soundly.
     
    OBCboxer, Apr 12, 2009
    OBCboxer, Apr 12, 2009
    #13
  14. MrMarvel

    MrMarvel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    More was on the line for Frazier. More was on the line for Ali in the rematch. I disagree with your characterization of FOTC. The fight was extremely close. Frazier took a worse beating, actually. Ali's jaw swelled up, but Frazier's whole head was a swollen mess. Ali landed more shots than Frazier, and many of them were hard shots. The difference was that Frazier took it to Ali down the stretch. There's no question about that. Ali lost his edge when he started playing. Frazier had a big 11th round and then of course the knockdown. It was a helluva fight. Had Ali spent more time doing what he did in the first half of the fight in the second half of the fight, he would have won. I give Frazier a lot of credit, but Ali blew it.
     
    MrMarvel, Apr 12, 2009
    MrMarvel, Apr 12, 2009
    #14
  15. markedwardscott

    markedwardscott Active Member Full Member

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    markedwardscott, Apr 12, 2009
    markedwardscott, Apr 12, 2009
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