Just rewatched and rescored Leonard-Hagler - Our Scorecards

I guess that's why people still debate this fight over 20 years later. I felt like most of Leonard's punches were blocked by Hagler's dome. I honestly didn't see Hagler block many punches. But again, I've had this discussion with many, many people, so I don't discredit what you saw.

 

the first time i saw this fight, i thought leonard won clearly mainly because he looked so good with flurries that seemed to land on hagler at will and because hagler looked absolutely awful - missing shots and looking like he had lead for arms.

but the more i watch it, the more isee people's points that leonard landed an awful lot on hagler's gloves while hagler's body work was impressive.

 

Exactly.

 

Pretty much how I remember it. I do think Hagler did well enough in round 7 and 8 to call them clear wins.

The event and alleged contraversy were much better than the match in the ring.

I thought Leonard edghed it by 1-2 points. Hagler has no one to blame but himself.

One of the great WHAT IF's on this fight is what if the match was 15 rounds Leonard was tired and admited he was spent after round 12. Leonard people insisted this was a 12 round match, not a 15 round match. Their shrewed negoationg helped Sugar Ray win.

 

I think Hagler would have won it over 15. Coming back after 3 years and beating Hagler over 12 is very, very hard - over 15 it's probably impossible.

 

No big deal. The Mugabi fight was scheduled for 12, as was the Heanrs fight. So we have to go back to 1984 for a Hagler defence that was scheduled for 15.

 

You need to avoid punch stats. It's something thats an opinion and not something thats factual.

 

114-114

 

right

just watched it heres my scorecard

115-113 Hagler

heres teh round break down

Leonard: 1,2,3,4,6
Hagler: 5,7,8,9,10,11,12

it was close and hard to score but i felt Leonard definitly won the 1,2,3,4,6 and hagler the 7,8,9,12

i felt the rounds 5,10,11 were open to interpretaion and these decided the fight

but a big misconception here that Leonard just flurried and shoeshined in the last 30 seconds to win a round. I felt Lonard landed solid shots throughout rounds and didnt do much more in the last 30 seconds than the rest of the round. Also Leonard only flurried in 2 rounds the 9th and 12th

theres my 2 cents

 

I watched it again. It's frustrating to watch because Hagler looks ready but he's having trouble pulling the trigger on the right. When he does get off a straight, his timing is off. It reminds me of the Holmes-Spinks fights, only Spinks fought a lot more and, in my opinion, lost the rematch.

Hagler pops Leonard with some good short hooks throughout. And his body work is good. He keeps up a steady pace and this is what carries the fight for him. Leonard is doing a lot of things, but they aren't exactly relevant to meaningful boxing. The crowd delights at the pot shots, bolos, and holding-and-hitting, but it doesn't impress me. I'm trying to give Leonard the benefit of the doubt, but I just see a lot of posing in there.

It's look like I remembered it. Hagler is an aging warrior who wins it by making the fight, throwing a lot more punches, and stunning Leonard a few times. Leonard doesn't hurt Hagler at all. The bycycling without jabbing does nothing for me. When Ali was up on his toes, he was jabbing.

I agree with Filippo's reasoning, but I think his scoring was a bit tight. He points out something that I thought at the time: people were too focused on Leonard because he is the star and was coming out of retirement. He was bound to look impressive. Lederman admitted that he liked a finess fighter, which is why he scored the fight for Leonard. When Merchant confronted him about what he said, Lederman shifted in his chair and avoided eye contact while denying he was biased.

Hagler should have crowded Leonard, and Leonard surprised me with his slickness, but Hagler still won the fight. I think this is the most controversial fight ever. I can't think of another fight that's debated as much as this one.

 

i actually thought Hagler didnt go to the body enough he spent far to much time looking for the head

I thiink thats unfair on leonard he did circle round the ring but what he threw were proper shots he wasnt shoeshining he was throwing fast hard combos

 

It was a close fight.I still think Hagler won it though.He did make it a harder fight than it needed to be.He should have stuck to southpaw for a start.

 

100% agree

 

Hagler punched to the body a lot, especially while Leonard was holding. In fact, Hagler landed a lot of hard head shots while Leonard was holding. Remember, the fighter who is doing the holding is not allowed to hit his opponent. That is a foul. The fighter being held can hit his opponent all he wants, which Hagler almost always took advantage of. There was one moment late in the fight when Hagler hit Leonard with four or five hard head shots in a row while Leonard was holding on. A lot of people never acknowledge all those punches while Leonard is holding and I believe this is one of the reasons for the inaccuracy of the punch stat numbers. Duran did the same thing to Leonard in Montreal when Leonard was constantly holding him, and failing to acknowledge all that work is the likely reason people think that fight was close than it actually was.

Leonard did punch while he circled laterally, but it was an occasional sneaky right hand, not jabs, and the rights were often thrown in a ineffective looping overhand fashion. When his punches did land, they made a loud sound because Leonard was landing with an open glove. Most of the time Leonard's punches glanced off Hagler's glove or hit shoulder. Hitting a man's shoulder counts, but not the same as hitting the man flush. Leonard did the same type of slapping with body shots. If you watch the fight carefully you can see what Leonard was doing. The quality of punches count, so this is no small matter.

Leonard told HBO commentators before the fight that if he could land a few flashy and loud shots that this is all that was required to convinced the judges he was winning. Leonard admits to Larry King in the lengthy post-fight special on HBO that Dundee would yell out one minute when two minutes had gone and Leonard would go to work with the loud open handed shots, bolos, mugging, and so forth. It was more show than substance, and that was all in the plan.

The HBO special is very revealing. I highly recommend people read it. This is where Filippo and Lederman are pitted head to head with Merchant discussing the character of scoring. Filippo is a man who understands why he scored it for Hagler, and body work was one of the keys in his view. Lederman was evasive when called on his immediate post-fight analysis when he said he likes the "finess fighter."

Hagler had a very good reason to be bitter. His title was taken from him not on substance but on flash and celebrity. Judges did this to Hagler more than once. The first Antuofermo fight and the Duran fight weren't nearly as close as the judges had it. I don't know what the bias is against a no-nonsense boxer, but it's sometimes there.

 

give us a link to the HBO special