Was John L Sullivan the most dominant of all the heavyweight champions in his prime?

Sullivan also beat sombody up in a bar in 1884 suggesting that the deamon drink started to get a hold of him around the time of his world tour in 1884.

 

I agree that it would have probably caught up with him sooner in a stronger era.

It is probably fair to say that the competition during Sullivans prime was significantly weaker than that of Jem Mace's era before and Corbetts era afterward.

I say that as sombody who thinks that Sullivan was a lot better than Corbett at his peak.

This means that you have a huge disparity between the quality of the champion and the quality of the best contenders from 1880 to 1885.

 

Sullivan was so far ahead of the field in his prime that some top contenders refused to fight him for $1000 if the lasted the distance!

The stories of people he knocked out remaining unconcious for 30 minutes and having disfigured faces afterwards got around quickly.

 

You are probably correct with regards to quality of era, but how much of this was down to Sullivan's absolute dominance (like with the supposed lack of quality in the Louis era).

Also, realistically, which fighters if any could do what Sullivan did in putting up the $1000 4 round challenge? Certainly not Butterbean, who was zero chance. Tyson would beat most, but really, plenty of fighters could (and did) last the 4 rounds. More than likely the skin tight gloves helped Sullivan with the challenge, but even then, it works both ways, wouldnt you expect someone to lay enough leather on him to stop him from defending a week (or was it a day or even an hour or less?) later due to cuts injuries or damages? Certainly, you would think that this means that his defence was underated.

I dont think that there is a fighter born who could have done what sullivan did, or at least i cant really think of one. Quite possibly, he could be the greatest ever, despite the fact that the modern theorists scoff at his suggestion.

 

Some good points.

I agree that if Dempsey, Louis or Tyson had offered up the four round challenge like Sullivan did they would probably have lost a fair amount of money unless they placed some cap on the quality of the oponents who could undertake the challenge.

Weak era or not Sullivan was one hell of a finisher.

 

Solid thread Sullivan did dominate the WHITE fighters of his day....except Sullivan only beat on white fighters. He never took on the tough black fighters of his day. he said "I never fought a negro, and I never shall." That is no exuse right there. George Godfrey was very solid, Sullivan never took on him, and of course he wanted no part of Peter Jackson because he knew he had no chance in that one.

 

Sullivan resume lacks a big name on it....Slavin, Jackson, Goddard, Dooley, et al. We can not say he beat the best fighters.

I say no.

 

But these guys became name fighters only late in his reign and none of them (Jackson included) were clear standout no1 challengers at the time. He fought every challenge available including the name opponents of the day in his early days. And, he fought some of his biggest challengers under bare knuckles rules (a discipline that he was not trained or experienced in). His words suggest ducking, but the reality is that none of the fighters you suggested deserved a title shot at a prime John L. None of them were really any better than Corbett who he did defend against and even if he lost to these fighters it would have meant nothing because of his declining state. There was absolutely no call for him to fight anyone that he didnt fight, during his prime. The lack of a big name fighter is down simply to the technologies (and media of the time) combined with the dominance of John L.

 

If the basic idea is to fight to the finish, then wouldn't Sullivan as a matter of course have a lot of knockouts? Yeah, seems logical.

Didn't Sullivan fight most of those fights bareknuckles? If so, then doesn't he belong to another sport?

 

While Sullivan ought some fights with bare knuckles under London Prize Ring rules the vast majority of his fights were Queensbury fights with gloves.

Sullivan was more the first gloved champion than the last bareknuckle champion.

 

No, of course not. He ducked all black men and hid behind the color line. Plus, my impression is that a lot of those "25 to 33" title defences was against local tough guys, who couldn't hold a candle even to Galento.

 

Louis's BUm Of The Month Club probably did give him stiiffer tests, but if you look at the records of 90% of the men Sullivan was putting away ,the likes of Tony Musto and Jack Roper [2 Louis victims] could probably have done just as emphatic a job,they were novices for the most part ,Sullivan's competiton aside from a couple were abysmal.