Frazier reflects on Thrilla, Ali

The two were closer to their primes than they were in Manilla puls they were undefeated. Ali always clowned, that was apart of his brash flamboyant style. Ali simply lost that fight, no excuses.

 

In the space of 6 months, Ali had tackled Quarrey, Bonavena and Frazier in FOTC.....This being after the lay off.

In the 12 months prior to FOTC, Frazier had KO'd Bob Foster only.

Ali ceratainly took the hard road back. Joe was young and fresh. Going the distance with Frazier in the FOTC shows the toughness of Ali.

Had Ali been given an extra 6 months to re-adjust physically, he'd have taken Joe to the cleaners.

 

Awesome avatar picture Allahschild.

Ali really looked the **** back then.Even in black and white he glowed.Malcolm X who was quite a presence himself receed's into the background next to Ali.

 

65-67 Ali i would pick to beat Frazier in 1971 in a tough 15 round fight. He struggled badly against Bonavena prior to FOTC. Quarry didn't last long enough to test him. Even Ali looked good against Frazier in the first 3 rounds (as he did against Quarry) until lack of conditioning caught up later in the fight. Ali was probably clowning cuz he was extremely tired and couldn't get off the ropes. His legs were gone. 65-67 legs were much better - probably his most important asset as a fighter and why his chin got tested more after exile.

 

I don't agree with everything that Frazier says, and his advisors have often told him to keep his mouth shut about certain aspects of both his and Ali's careers, in light of his own public image. What's forgotten is the fact that Ali's use of race at the time of the FOTC and the name calling were cruel and vicious tactics.

I can't put myself in Joe Frazier's shoes, but having your children harrassed and beaten up at school because their daddy was the opponent in the FOTC was wrong. When a nasty, ignorant article like the fool Bryant "Barney" Gumbel wrote about Frazier being a "white man's champion in black skin" becomes more believeable to the public, should Frazier turn the other cheek?

Unfortunately, Ali's mouth often dictated and perpetuated what was wrong before and after he was champion, not realizing the negative effects it had on others, and not just boxers alone. Ali disrespecting Frazier, was a disrespect to all the hard working, darker skinned nationalities who were ridiculed by the majority or supporters of the establishment.

Ali grew up on a white farm in Kentucky. Frazier grew up in Beaufort South Carolina. Who was more poor and black?

As for Manilla, everyone knows that the FOTC rarely gets airplay because the networks have a difficult time showcasing anything about Ali losing. I rarely see the FOTC on TV but have seen the rematch and Manilla, a whole lot more on TV. The same thing goes for the Norton fights. Rarely does the first one that Ali lost, get airplay on sports channels, but of course they have to repeatedly show Norton's tears of robbery in the third fight which. It's almost pathetic how the networks seem to have this unwritten rule that no Ali loss can be shown on regular TV.

 

18rds of boxing in 4 years was not enough preparation for a 15 rds fight with the number one heavyweight in the world.Significantly the result was a one off.

 

Ali took a beating? Frazier didnt then? Joe was in hospital for a week after that fight.atsch

 

It truly amazes me that so many good posters (you included) make this claim with such degree of certainity. Because it's not really supported by logic. If a guy comes back after such a long lay-off and still makes a brutally hard fight out of it, there just is no grounds to say that the result couldn't have been different had he been in his prime.

If Ali had won two more rounds he would have won. Surely, it's far from unreasonable to think that Ali of 1966-1967 would have won those two rounds. Ali was still really, really good in FOTC, but there were after all noticeable differences compared to how he looked four years earlier.

 

66-68 version of Ali beats any heavyweight ever in my opinion.

 

Ali was in great shape, but he wasn't the same just like Dempsey, Louis, Robinson, Leonard and Tyson weren't quite the same after their lay-offs/inactivities. There also isn't any reason to say that he was stronger or hit harder after a long lay-off and being only 3 lbs heavier than before the lay-off. Add to that that he beat Joe two times out of three while arguably being further past his prime in all three fights.

Stating that "Frazier always would beat Ali prime for prime" just isn't consistent with these facts. It would, of course, always be a very tough fight for Ali.

 

Ali did not have his full stamina ,in FOTC,Jose Torres watched him in training and said laying on the ropes had become a habit for him, he did not have the confidence in his legs.IMO We never saw Ali in is prime, that was robbed from him during his years of exile.Prime Ali beats Frazier ,or any one else for me.The second fight between them ,when Ali had been active taking on good contenders ,and Frazier had had two joke defences, before being bounced silly by Foreman saw their roles reversed some what.Ali with ring rounds under his belt won the second fight clearly.
Those who say Frazier was past it conveniently forget to mention that Ali was older, and that he had been in the other corner in those three wars.

 

Yeah, I must say I find this a strange notion, saying that one fight of three gives the best picture of how they would have match-uped prime for prime. Frazier was younger with less fights and of course no lay-off on all occassions, yet he was somehow so far past it in the last two that those combined doesn't count as much as the first does alone. Now that's freaky math for you.

It seems to be specific for this rivalry too. If one would ask who wins of Dempsey-Tunney and Tyson-Holyfield prime for prime I think most lean towards Dempsey respectively Tyson, even though they came out as clearly second best in those rivalries.