Larry Homes .Vs. Rocky Marciano Both 49-0.

When Holmes fought Tyson, he was retired for almost 2 years. Weaver was still bigger then Rocky and on the score cards, Holmes was a head by 3, 4 and 6 points.

Ring Record Books have Rocky listed at 5'10-1/4", boxrec has 5'10" and his own brother, who I knew well, says that was a stretch. I will say that I have seen him listed as tall as 5'11" in some sources, including the earlier Ring Record Books, BUT I also saw Holmes listed over 6'3" on some as well.

When I was with Larry last week, he was much bigger then I am and I'm a little over 6 feet.

 

Marciano was always fighting guys bigger than himself, so I dont think Holmes hight would be much of a worry. The reach is other matter though.

Still Rocky was great at getting by the jab, and Marciano will get his licks in. I see this more as a 50 50 fight, I can vision both guys winning this, but either way it wont be a easy win.

I think Marcianos's right hand will be a big key if Rocky wins though. And unlike Shavers, Rocky was better at finishing than Shavers, so assuming Rocky got a punch in like Shavers, it could end in that round.

 

I apologize in advance for this, because I know how sensitive Rocky fans are about any suggestion that their man wouldn't defeat nearly anybody on his best night, but I am just struck by things like the automatic assumption that Rocky Marciano was better than Ken Norton. I am not saing that he wasn't, but the assumption confuses the arguable for a premise.

I don't see how anybody who compares film of the two can't see that Marciano was made to order for Holmes. Marciano wouldn't often get past the jab of this master and, if he did, he wasn't knocking out Holmes. Ergo, Holmes outpoints or stops Marciano. Marciano does not punch harder than Shavers or Cooney. And Marciano was rarely a one-punch guy against top flight competition. He needed an accumulation of punches against Charles and Moore to do them in. Holmes had a world class chin, way better than either Charles or Moore. Holmes was stopped once, against a rampaging Mike Tyson. How many times were Charles, Walcott, and Moore knocked out?

It would a lot more exciting if the match were Marciano 49-0 and Holmes 48-0, because then Holmes could break Marciano undefeated record by beating Marciano himself and assuming his record. That would historically fitting because then nobody would have any credibility advancing this silly argument that Marciano was better than Holmes.

I will remain eternally pissed off at Michael Spinks for stopping Holmes from breaking Marciano's record. It was a brilliant performance, but, dammit, for the sake of perspective we needed that record to fall.

 

I think this matchup is ridiculous. I believe that even the 48-0 Holmes would beat Rocky pretty badly. There are a number of factors that do not look too good for Rocky. The biggest factor would be Marciano's nose and I'm sure Holmes, knowing what Charles did to it, would purposely target it. Of course there are many other facters, but I think that even the Holmes that lost to Spinks wins at least 9 out of 10 times.

 

When I said height, I also included weight and reach as well. Name a world contender that Rocky fought that was big as Holmes a side from Louis. Louis was the only Top 10 contender Rocky fought that was over 6 feet and weighed over 200 pounds.

Holmes had a GREAT left jab and I can not see Rocky getting by that with a reach of only 68".

The only boxers that were rated in the top 10 when Rocky fought them were Walcott, Charles and LaStarza twice each, Louis, Moore, Layne, Matthews and Cockell. So that means he fought only 8 boxers, 11 times that were rated in the top 10 at the time he fought them.

Moore was 5'11" - 188 pounds
Cockell was 5'11" - 205 pounds
Charles was 6'0" - 185½ & 192½ pounds
LaStarza was 6'0" - 187 & 184¾ pounds
Walcott was 6'0" - 196½ & 197¾ pounds
Matthews - 5'10¾ - 179 pounds
Layne – 6’1” - 193 pounds
AND Louis who was 6'2" by BoxRec, and weighed 213¾

Holmes was 6'3" - 223 pounds


I know this is not the only things you go by BUT both Larry & Rocky were Great fighters and a Great big man usually beats a Great little man.


Just to let you know, I MC'ed the unveiling of the Rocky Marciano Stamp back in 1999. I was asked by Rocky's brother. A few days later I also Mc'ed the unveiling of the Joe Louis Memorial Park in Pompton Lakes, New Jersey where Louis use to train.

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Marciano was probably 5'10 1/4" in his boxing shoes. His bare height was probably 5'9" ish....

 

At this stage of their careers I haltingly pick Marciano ,prime for prime Holmes with confidence.

 

Some are picking the Marciano who beat Moore over the Holmes that lost to Spinks. I will point out that upon training for the rematch and coming back a different man, Holmes actually looked pretty good in battering one of the greatest lighthevyweights of all time who by the way was 28 years old, 6'3" and 205 lbs.

A prime Marciano was outboxed in his first match with a 37 year old Walcott who was two fights away from the end of his career, before coming back in the 13th to land a bomb on a tiring veteran who's guard was dropping. Sorry, but I simply can't believe that a prime Holmes couldn't do any better. Larry Holmes was one of the greatest head to head fighters of all time literally, whereas Marciano was one of the greatest fighters of all time respectively. There's a world of difference. Holmes boxing ability alone would gain my vote to keep the Rock off balance and behind on the scorecards.. His size, chin and power in the right hand would basically ensure it. Marciano would be heavily subjected and open to big uppercuts and strait jabs all night long, and even in the rare instance that he did manage to land a shot here or there, he's not stopping the man who twice surivived the power of Earnie Shavers, Gerry Cooney, Tim Witherspoon, James Smith, Ray Mercer and a myriad of others...........

 

You make some excellent points Mr M.

 

Marciano was taking the play away from Walcott in rounds 3, 4, 5, and 6.

I gave thsos rounds to Marciano, the tide turn when Rocky was blinded, Walcott caught up and took the lead. Had the lent not got in Rocky's eyes, maybe it would have been other fight.

 

A head collision caused the damage,in the 6th round Walcott came out of the collision with a cut above the left eye.Marciano had a cut in his hairline.Between the 7th and 8th Marciano complained about his eyes burning.Freddie Brown and Alli Colombo washed Marciano's eyes out with cold water,Weill was having hysterics,saying Walcotts corner were trying to blind Rocky, he shouted to Charley Daggert the referee ,for him to check Walcott's gloves.
Sam Silverman ,who promoted many of Marciano's fights , had a different slant on things ,he said that Rocky's own corner caused the problem, with poor corner work .

 

See we may agree on liston, but this is where we strongly disagree on Marciano. I firmly believe Marciano was one of the greatest head to head fighters of all time. Before you call Holmes one of the best head to head fighters of all time, you better make sure he can beat Tim Witherspoon, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tubbs, Greg Page, Michael Dokes, Gerrie Coetzee because he sure never proved it in the ring! was he really better than these guys? who knows. Tyson proved he was better than those guys.

Holmes looked horrible. He lost. He barely had the ability to defeat top 10 rated contenders anymore. He was 36 fat and tired. Certainly too old to compete with a prime ATG swarmer slugger. Joe Louis was # 1 rated in 1951 and at 36-37 he was around same age as larry holmes. Louis during this time defeated more top 10 rated contenders than larry holmes did. He also was a chizzled 6'2 214lb not much smaller than larry, and he had the divisions best left jab, like larry. Marciano knocked Louis out in 8, I see no reason why he can't do the same to a 36 year old holmes.

 

Are people honestly picking the fat old tired 36 year old holmes over a young prime Rocky Marciano? I can see prime for prime, but the holmes of 1986? hell that version of Holmes couldnt even beat Carl Truth Williams.

A fat 223lb. Prime Holmes at 210lb was much better shape. the 223lb 36 year old flabby holmes was much slower, easier to hit, and could never match a young marcianos workrate.

 

Well I think Louis is a good example. After all, Louis did have a remarkable jab, and very elagant boxing skills, and at age 37, he was only one year older than 36 year old holmes of 1985. Louis was also the # 1 heavyweight contender in 1951 when Rocky knocked him out.

 

That's a pretty tough bet Suzie. A 5'10", 185 Lb man who's best wins were over past prime foes and ones that troubled him regularly.