Frank Shamrocks opinion on boxing

Why are you een in the MMA forum if you feel that way?

Boxing in MMA will always be different from straight boxing, there's too many other variables to factor in a MMA fight opposed to boxing such as kicks and takedowns. The MMA fighter isn't only protecting their chin but also has to defend against take downs, which is probaly a big factor in the KO rates in MMA. I know from practicing BJJ we're told to keep our hands low to defend takedowns, and I know in boxing you're taught to keep hands high to protect the chin. The MMA fighter has to find a balance which sometimes leaves them exposed in one area. (I don't buy the argument about glove size contributing to KO's BTW, actually studies have shown the impact between 4 ounce MMA gloves and 8 ounce boxing gloves are surprisingly similair).

It's the same with BJJ, watch a jiujitsu fight with the gi on and watch jiujitsu in MMA, it's different. It's not better or worse it's just adjusted to suit different variables like punches and what not.

So while guys like Floyd Mayweather and Shane Mosley are great to watch in the ring in boxing, their styles just wouldn't work in MMA.

But at the same time, MMA fighters who excel at striking in their field will find themselves ulnerable in a boxing ring.

So what I'm trying to say is punching in MMA is different because of the nature of the rules and variables. It's like comparing a cricket player's skill to a baseball player's skill.

 

Thats very apparent. But comments about Diaz's socalled boxing skills let alone MMA striking skills are laughable. Theres only a handful of solid strikers in MMA. Almost ALL of them come from pure striking disciplines.

 

I guess the point is, with the way Diaz and Shamrock fought. You can make an argument that the Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker fight at Wrestlemania showed far more skills and certainly far better entertainment. This cannot be how MMA evolves, somethings not right.

Like Scurlaruntings said, stick to what youre good at and add bits and pieces, because honestly its far better for a Karate guy to get taken down and Gnpd but showed true Karate skills prior to getting taken down, than show well rounded sloppy skills.

 

Incredibly stupid thing to say.

 

You can block just fine with MMA gloves. Its easier to land punches in MMA because the majority of these guys dont move their damn head because they dont know how. Watch A. Silva, Noons, Evans, Penn at 155, GSP, AA, Fedor. Those guys have at least an idea of how to box.

The bottom line is in MMA you can advance through the ranks and compete at a high level without ever getting hit. Your chin is never tested to the degree it is in boxing. You cant hack it in boxing without at least a decent chin. You can in MMA.

These guys are getting KO'd because their striking is terrible. The majority of these guys simply cannot anticipate and react to punches and that is why that UFC card in England was so pathetic to watch. These guys were dropping like flies.

And you really think that an MMA fighter wearing 4oz gloves would deliver that much more impact than a professional boxer wearing 8-10oz gloves. You're crazy, Boxers hit harder, thats the bottom line. The only difference between the gloves is the impact of a boxing glove is more spread, MMA glove is more direct and you cut easier with the open gloves.

And you ask any pro fighter whether it be boxing, MMA, MT they will all tell you that the punches that often result in a KO are the ones they dont see coming. That is why Mark Hunt can take a head kick from Crocop but get dropped by a hook from a MW in Manhoef.

 

Good post, but im sorry dont ever bring up Liddell having good hands again.

The bottom line is you dont have to be well rounded to be good in MMA. And the guys who are able to transition with success are the ones who come from a singular discipline.

Im afraid what were going to get in the future are guys average at best in everything and not good at anything. And thats a problem. Forrest Griffin really has no fighting background. He started training MMA as a 21 year old and hes a guy whos a decent striker, good on the ground but really whats his bread and butter? Hes just a solid fighter and him not having a dominant skillset will keep him away from ever being a long title holder. In fact he will probably never hold a UFC belt again.

 

Thats just stupid.

Almost all the best strikers in MMA are the ones who have striking backgrounds. If boxing was so vastly different from MMA you wouldnt have so many professional MMA'ers training at professional boxing gyms. Hell you take one good look inside the Wild Card Gym and you'd see Jake Shields, Mark Munoz, Arlovski, A. Silva and many other MMA'ers.

You know that GSP spends roughly only 2-3 weeks at Jacksons camp before a fight? And you know that before in his preparation for a fight he spends time training at pro boxing gyms with pro boxers, he spends time wrestling with wrestlers. He goes into there world and gets great sparring, probably better sparring than he'd ever get at an MMA gym.

If a fighter like GSP can get away with training strictly pure wrestling, pure boxing and still be a dominant champ he must be doing something right and the differences between the sports must not be as difficult as "fans" like to think.

 

unfortunately so has boxing. Its still ran by sheer politics and most fighters duck any real competition ie: Klitchko bros. Now I know thats going to start a war atsch

 

Well of course! All the guys with a wrestling background are going to be the best wrestlers and the guys with a jiu jitsu background are going to be that best at BJJ. There are exceptions though, BJ Penn's background is mainly BJJ and he is a very good boxer IMO.

I'm not saying boxing doesn't work in MMA, that would just be silly. I guess I'm saying some of the evasive techniques have to be different, but I do agree some guys need to learn a bit of head movement at the very least and tuck their chins in for god's sake!

But you can't tell me when GSP is training straight boxing he's being taught Ray Robinson style footwork or ducking and weaving, it has to be tailored to account for the different rule set in MMA.

And as far as boxer's punching harder than MMA fighter's, Bas Rutten and Randy Couture hit just as hard as a heavy-weight boxer. And Fedor's technique is far from great but I'm sure he hits bloody hard too.

 

Very good post. Alot are jack of all trades and masters of none. Not everyone can be a champion boxer, but an everyday guy with a dash of athleticism can be a UFC Champ like a Forrest with hard work and dedication.

MAchida stated once in an interview that he practices Karate most of the time and supplement it with a little JJ and Wrestling.. Gee what a surprise!
Meanwhile guys like Koscheck hardly trains wrestling anymore and you can see where their respective careers are heading.

Machida and Silva are the only two who practices defense in MMA at a respectable level. I cant even think of anyone who comes close. To me a sign of a great fighter is the amount of damage they avoid while inflicting damage of their own. Machida to me achieves the highest level of Martial art "sensen no sen"

 

Theres just as much politics and corruption in MMA than there is in boxing. And who do you want the Klitschkos to fight? One just fought Peter, the other one just tried to fight Povetkin, now they signed to fight Haye.

I dont like the Klitsckos and im extremely turned off at what they did in making Haye fight 3 Klitschkos in a row but criticizing them for ducking their opponents is really not one of them. I think its more of a product of the HW division being so damn terrible.

 

Good post. Machida is just incredible to watch in MMA and I really think the LHW division is so one-dimensional that he can have a very long title reign. Him and Evans will rule that division. I mean its comical watching these guys try to fight Machida. They just have no clue but in all fairness, I mean punching bags like Ortiz and Thiago Silva arent going to pose much of a threat to Machida. It will be interesting to see him against Evans whos boxing has come along way and is a good wrestler as well.

I remember seeing something about the amount of strikes opponents land on Machida. It was just an astronomically low number. Much lower in comparison to guys like Silva, GSP, Penn, Evans and some of the other better MMA fighters.

I also remember reading an article about a former UFC legend and he was saying MMA is becoming diversification over specialization. Meaning, before you had guys who were dominant wrestlers etc. Now you have guys like Heath Herring who have been in MMA for 10 years, is decent at everything and yet when he fights a wrestler like Lesnar whos been in the sport for less than 2 years, Herring gets his ass kicked. And you're talking about a guy in Herring whos been in the ring with some of the best MMA fighters of all-time. And yet Lesnar who is 2 years removed from jumping off turnbuckles and doing atomic leg drops walks right into that octagon and mauls Herring for 3 rounds.

 

GSP trains at a pro boxing gym with pro boxing trainers. He goes right through their workouts, spars with other gym members etc. Whatever adjustments he makes, he makes on his own, because those coaches are strictly boxing coaches.

And the part about Randy Couture and Bas Rutten is the dumbest thing ive ever heard. Frank Mir on tapout radio said hes trained with 175lb boxers who hit much harder than he does and Mir is 250lbs. Randy Couture hits about as hard as Chris Byrd who is a LHW(175lb) and is regarded as one of the lightest hitting HW's of all-time. That guy couldnt crack an egg. Frank Shamrock, the subject of this thread also said boxers hit harder than an MMA'er. He even commented on how unbelievable it was to watch how hard both Darchinyan and Arce punched in their fight in which Frank attended.

Boxers hit harder, you'd be foolish to think otherwise.

 

Whether he makes adjustments on his own or not is not the point, the point is there ARE adjustments to a typical boxing stance for MMA which is what I've been trying to say.


Ok Randy was probaly a bad example, but guys like Rutten, Arlovski, Fedor hit just as hard as any boxing heavyweight. I'm not saying they'd be great boxers or win titles but they can hit just as hard as most heavyweight boxers and it's a FACT. There's actually been studies with MMA fighters that have proven that they can hit as hard as boxers and kick as hard as kickboxer's, why is this so hard to believe?

 

you square up way more in an MMA stance and not commit to the punch like you can in boxing, so boxers hit harder, let alone the fact punching is there bread and butter, and only discipline