Larry Homes .Vs. Rocky Marciano Both 49-0.

LOL, very good

 

That is incorrect, Brion was ranked # 7 when Louis fought him....and in the monthly ratings Bivins, Beshore and Agramonte were all at or near it. If you go by annuelly ratings, In 1950 Agramonte was # 9 rated heavyweight in the world. Bivins went on to crack the top 10 in 1952, and Beshore got a title shot and went 14 hard rounds with a prime ezzard charles. Louis starched out Beshore much easier than Ezzard Charles did.


You go by Annuel Ratings, I go by monthly ratings. Brion Savold Bivins Agramonte were all in the monthly ratings. Beshore might have been too. Hopefully Old Fogey chimes in here.

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Louis wins a unanimous decision over Jimmy Bivins

 

Thing is if Holmes had rematched the controversial
fights or fought the Better guys of his era, his record may have been 35-4, not one tough fight did he rematch , not one, Weaver, Norton, Witherspoon, He never unified the title and gave up a title not to fight Greg Page and avoided Coetzee,Dokes,Tate,Thomas,Weaver,Witherspoon...these were big money fights and men with titles in his era...is that the way to be a champ...I guess so on ESB, a lot of Boxing experts wont hold it against you.

 

Wow Holmes had to be carried out on a stretcher vs Nick Wells? Wells only 5'10? Tyson was only 5'10 too. hmmmmm


Rocky in the amatuers faced 6'3 221lb(according to newspaper) 17-0 with 17 Kayos Golden Gloves champion Coley Wallace, who not only looked like Louis but newspapers were reporting he punched like Louis too(of course wallace ended up a huge underachiever who was overhyped in the first place). Besides the very controvesial decision, whats lost here is that Marciano did not go down in this fight and took Wallace's best stuff which was knocking out everybody. Its too bad Marciano broke his left thumb in the Fischera fight and was forced to
withdraw as the New England representative in the National AAU Tournament. It would have been interesting to see if Marciano made the olympic team, won it, then had to give back his gold medal when they found out he had already had one pro fight. Weird Stuff.

 

I think Larry was a great great fighter, I thiink he beats many great heavyweight champions. However out of the swarmers, I think Larry beats Dempsey(styles) and loses to Tyson, Frazier, and Marciano. Now Liston, whom I pick over Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier, and Tyson....I think holmes gives liston one of his toughest fights and maybe beats him.

 

I believe Larry would be the toughest guy for Rocky to beat ,but not because of his jab as he threw it most times off his front foot,allowing Rocky right hand oppertunities of which he most likely would knock Larry out with .Larry would have to reach with his jab .Not a way to beat Rocky. Larry had a great right upper-cup from a longer range than most ,but Rocky too,may have beaten it with a left hook.Larry did not have the best chin in the world and Rocky ,I am sure would have tested it alot......God bless....kenny weldon

 

Gee, real great comparison of scenarios there suzie.

 

I mean facts are facts. But Maghoo, I already layed out my explanation on how a fight between a holmes vs marciano prime for prime matchup goes, look back on the other pages. Now a fight between marciano and a 1985 36 year old fat lazy holmes is a one sided joke and would look identical to marciano-louis fight or holmes-tyson. A 36 year old holmes was fat tired lazy and slower, he couldnt even beat truth williams anymore.

Prime for Prime trilogy?

1st fight: Holmes unanimous decision

2nd fight: Rocky late TKO fight close on cards(if holmes even gives a rematch lol, he never gave them!)

3rd fight: BARNBURNER!! Rocky in a close one

 

I really hate when you say I am wrong when I am not. BUT I will be glad to educated you anyway.

Brion
In the January 1951 issue of Ring Magazine (Ratings ending November 15, 1950, Louis fought him 14 days later) Brion was not rated in the top 10.

Up-Date: In their 2nd bout Brion was rated Number Eight when he fought Louis. Source: September 1951 Issue Ring Magazine (period ending July 15, 1951, just 17 days before he fought Louis).

Beshore
In the February 1951 issue of Ring Magazine (Ratings ending December 15, 1950, Louis fought him 19 days later) Beshore was rated as a Class A boxer. They rated the top 21 then they rated them by Class, so he was at best #22.

Agramonte
In the March 1951 issue of Ring Magazine (Ratings ending January 15, 1951, Louis fought him 23 days later) Agramonte was not rated in the top 10. He wasn't rated when he fought Louis the 2nd time either.

Walker
Well he was never even close to be rated BUT you never said he was.

Bivins was not rated at the time he fought Louis.

Of Louis's 8 bouts during that period, only Savold and Brion (2nd bout) were the only two that was rated at the time they fought Louis.

 

Southpaw Nick Wells had an amateur record of 189-18 with 110 KOs, 72 of them in the 1st round. Holmes only had 22 amateur bouts, going 19-3. Holmes was not experienced enough at that time, BUT he made up for it when he turned Pro.

 

You could very well be right BUT in my opinion Holmes would win the 1st and the 2nd if they had one.

 

Axe Man.

"Damn. Enough of your ****. Shut up."

What is wrong with you? I have never downgraded Rocky like most people do on this Forum. I hear stupid garbage on Marciano being a shitty fighter, but I always said that Rocky was a great fighter, but because i pick Holmes over Rocky head to head, i become the Anti-Christ.

What happened to an opinion? Because that is all we got on this subject, opinion.

What is wrong with me thinking Holmes would beat Marciano? When Suzieq says Marciano would win, i hear jack**** from your mouth. Anyone who says Holmes would win, you tell to "Shut up."

It is an opinion not based on fact, we can only speculate. That is why we are here. If you don't like it you can shut the hell up.

I LIKE Marciano too. He was a great warrior. But the claims by Suzieq that only 5 Heavyweights in history could beat him is pure speculation, because we will never know.

 

I've joined this late!

Holmes PTS after being knocked down once or twice himself.

 

1. Facts without explanations are meaningless. Simply stating that Holmes was Ko'd by 5'10 Nick Wells and by 5"10" Mike Tyson doesn't even begin to tell the whole story and nor does it have anything to do with weather or not he'd beat Marciano.

2. Holmes did not lose to Carl Williams. he won a very close fight against a very talented boxer who had nothing in common physically nor stylistically with Marciano.

3. A 1985 Holmes who you describle as " fat and lazy ", actually looked pretty well trained and motivated in the rematch against Michael Spinks. I would give this more prepared Larry Holmes a good chance at giving Marciano a good match comparable to Joe Walcott's effort. Holmes anywhere between 1978 - 1983 would have my vote to win in rather one-sided fashion.


CONCLUSION : I don't pick Holmes simply because he was just "taller". No, Larry may have had his share of flat performances, but when the man showed up hot he was hot. A motivated and well trained Holmes like the one who beat Cooney, Shavers, Berbick and Leon Spinks would have been a real problem for any champion in history, and a huge hurdle for a guy like Rocky Marciano. Take a look at some clips of Holmes from the very late 70's thru the early 80's. Look at how fast he was on his feet and how active he was firing off that jab. Look at how many hard shots he took from all time ring ranked punchers and still came back to win. Look at what happened to Mike Weaver when he cornered Holmes and tried to go to town on him.. SLAM!!!!! Floored by a massive right uppercut - the same uppercut that would have cought Tyson had it not gotten snagged in the ropes. ****, look at how effective Holmes STILL was at the age of 42 and agianst an undefeated olympian who had just iced 28-0 Morrison and 27-0 Damiani......

 

Who's Nick Wells? Was in the amateurs I'm assuming???????