Were does Chavez rank in the top 50 ATGS?

top 20.

/end

 

I actually agree with the thread starter.

Chavez was a beautiful fighter at his best. He closed the distance better than most, and when he threw combination's, he was terribly accurate - body and head.

But he also seemed to come up short when he fought truly elite fighters. There is nothing ordinary about fighters like Whitaker, and he was being beaten decisively against Taylor until the last round. I have to consider that when ranking him.

His record looks amazing on paper, it is amazing, but it's still pretty padded with cab drivers. ATG fighter, undoubtedly, but top 20 ATG fighters don't get badly outclassed by Taylor and Whitaker to the extent he did.

Anywhere between 40-50.

 

Outclassed by Taylor?!! Did you happen to see Taylors face at the end of the bout?? Taylor took such a physical beating in the fight. he was never the same fighter afterward.

 

30-40 for me. Great, Great fighter, just a hlaf notch below "top 20 caliber" fighters in my opinion.

 

25-40 is a fair range imo.

 

100% agree :good

 

spot on

the biggest myth is boxing is probably when people say that taylor was winning that fight by a mile and out classic chavez. bull****. a lot of taylors combo's where landing on the gloves. jcc was getting in the cleaner more effective shot

if that fight had of been 15 rounds (like good old days and how long fights should be) taylor would not had had a prayer of getting to the finishing line

 

Makes no difference to the point I was making.

In my estimation, a top 20 fighter is actually the likes of Pernell Whitaker, who instead of getting out-boxed for 12 rounds and then receiving a dubious draw, goes and outclasses fellow great fighters, like Azumah Nelson.

Julio Cesar Chavez was losing on the scorecards to Taylor soundly, and he should have lost a lopsided decision to Whitaker, also. For that very reason, in addition to his padded record, and other decisions that went his way, I don't think he has a skill set comparable to the top 20 fighters that have ever lived.

 

I wouldn't have him in the top 50

From 1980 onwards I'd rate the following above him P4P (in no order): Salvador Sanchez, Leonard, Hagler, HEarns, Benitez, Duran, Whitaker, Tyson, Lennox, Holyfield, Jones Jr, Mayweather, Hopkins, M Spinks, Holmes, McCallum

The following have a case to be above him: Arguello, Barrera, Pacquaio, Toney, Morales, Marquez, Delahoya, Mosley, Calzaghe, Wilfredo Gomez

Thats 26 names that could be above him just in the last 30years, and thats just off the top of my head

 

De La Hoya does not have a case because he did even worse than Chavez did against the best fighters he faced.

Joe Calzaghe didn't even fight great fighters.

I'm the biggest Barrera fan on the board, but I wouldn't consider having him above Chavez, even if I do think he was the better offensive fighter.

 

Delahoya had better comp than Chavez and Chavez didn't beat true great fighters. DLH is sold a little short on his performances against the best and his LW and LWW titles and wins ignored.

You say Calzaghe didnt face great fighters, well perhaps true but he faced excellent competition Chavez doesnt have a murderer's row list of wins does he.

Lets compare best wins

DLH - Whitaker (past prime), Chavez (twice past prime), Quartey (should have lost imo), Tito (should have got the win), Vargas

Calzaghe - Hopkins (43), Kessler, Eubank (past prime), Jones Jr (way past prime), Lacy

Barrera - Morales (twice), Hamed, Mkkinney, Tapia, Ayala (past prime)

Chavez - Taylor (controversal), R Mayweather, Ramirez, Camacho (past prime), Haugen

In terms of top wins there's little in it, DLH clearly has the best wins and Calzaghe has great but old names. In terms of dominance Calzaghe is above Chavez but both were protected. All had about 20+ title fights

 

Lets compare best wins

Whitaker was past his best, but Chavez was so finished he was comparable to a C class fighter on those occasions. People felt he lost Quartey, so you only really have a win against Vargas that was clear cut. I don't rate Fernando Vargas very highly.

Hopkins just proved he is still a great fighter, but Lacy and even Kessler to a certain extent haven't proved themselves to be "great". Roy Jones was comparable to a C class fighter when those two fought.

I like Marco's resume because his top wins, the two against Morales and the one against Hamed, on both occasions, they were during their prime and both undefeated at the time. They are GREAT wins. Mckinney went on to beat Jones by KO, but Tapia and Ayala were undersized and getting on.

Exactly, not a top 20 fighter.

The pure reason the other guys faced better opposition is the reason Calzaghe has zero say. You listed Trinidad for Hoya, but why didn't you list Jones 2 or prime Marquez? Many people, including you I believe, felt Barrera won those fights. You should have only listed their wins.

 

We just went through this. I place him in the top 20. I have been watching boxing for decades, have lots of fight films, books, records, access to an excellent library, and in my years I have run across very few fighters who are greater than Chavez, especially in his weight range. His unbeaten streak was phenomenal because of the quality of his opposition. He dominated weight classes from 130 to 140 lbs. His first blemish came when he was in his 30s against all-time great welterweight champion Pernell Whitaker. He still competed at a high level after that, despite his age and years of ring battles. Alas, everybody gets old.

One of the things you will hear people say is that he lost against top flight competition. This is simply untrue. In his long prime he defeated top flight competition from 130 to 140 lbs, including such notables as Rocky Lockridge, Juan LaPorte, Edwin Rosario, Hector Camacho, and Meldrick Taylor.