How Does Jeffries Do Over 15 rds?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Apr 16, 2009.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    How would the Boilermaker have made out if his title fights had been scheduled for 15 rds.
    Would he have lost a couple of fights?
    For example the Corbett first fight?
    The Fitz first fight?
    Or would the shorter distance have prompted him to up his workrate and pressure ,instead of relying on wearing down his man over the long haul?
    What do you think?
     
  2. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Fifteen rounds, the first fight with Corbett (1900)would probably have been very close, can't call it without seeing it. Ditto Jeffries-Sharkey II (1899).

    Fitzsimmons, he was a pretty tough cob, maybe he could have lasted trying for a points win (1899, 1902)?

    By 1903/1904 I don't think Jeffries is as much disadvantaged by a fifteen round distance.
     
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    This is how I see it.

    It would be less of a problem towards the end of his career as he improved as a finisher.

    Earlier on he might have had problems.
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I did not start this thread as a stick to beat Jeffries with,but what makes you sure he improved as a finisher?
    His win over Ruhlin was corner stoppage,though I have no doubt he would have stopped Ruhlin at some point.
    His second wins over Corbett and Fitz could ,and in my opinion should be attributed to the fact that they were considerably past their best by then.I dont count the Munroe fight as of any significance.
     
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I conclude from contemporary acounts that he became much more methodical in breaking oponents down, and finishing them when they were hurt, later in his career.

    Ruhlin fight have technicaly been a corner stoppage but Jeffries wrecked him with a body shot and left him helples on the ropes.

    Corbett also was stopped by a body shot the same that Fitzsimmons had used to stop him years before.

    The Munroe fight comes across as a systematic breakdown.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I agreed Ruhlin , would have been kod at some point, as it was it was a corner retirement. Ruhlin had been kod cleanly a year earlier by Fitz.
    And earlier than that in 1 rd by Sharkey,so it was no big feat was it?

    Munroe was nothing.
    Corbett was 37 years old ,and had been inactive for 3 years ,he conceded 27lbs, yet still went 10rds.
    Fitz was 40 conceding 47lbs,yet he went 8rds .
    I see no evidence that Jeffries finishing improved.
     
  7. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    How about the Choynski draw? :yikes
     
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    A considerable acomplishment given Jeffries inexperience at the time.
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    And the relevance to this thread is?
     
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The US army call it misin creep.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Which means ?
     
  14. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jim Jeffries was too big and strong and young for either "Corbett & Fitz" in 1899 to 1904....... A 24 to 29 year old Jeffries eats these guys alive, just like he did...... I'm sure the older "Corbett & Fitz" would win some rds, but Jeffries was peaked then..... Jeffries was great.....

    MR.BILL
     
  15. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I dont think that it makes too much difference at all.

    Jeffries finished his early fights within 15 or he didnt finish them at all. Choynski and Ruhlin would both have probably ended up as wins for Jeffries if modern scoring was used but under the scoring used at the time, both would probably still be draws after 15.

    The two Sharkey matches may have been a little closer (is that really possible) and maybe there was a draw in their but realistically, you would think that Jeffries would still get the nod from what i have read.

    This leaves the just the first Corbett fight. There are varying reports on this. Corbett certainly being a sentimental favourite may ahve edged the decision. I doubt Jeffries coudl have knocked him out just because there was less rounds but it is possible that a last round rally is produced to end the fight, like he eventually did in the 23rd. Realisticaly though, a draw would probably have been given. I also think from the reports that this fight was a lot closer than the 'boxing lesson' that was reported. There is no way it would be reported as a boxing lesson if it was a decision and there would be no disgrace in dropping a decision (avenged) to Corbett of all people. I think the champ would have retained (controversially with shades of Don King?). Corbett though, may have really went up in ranking, with these 15 (or even better 12) round rules. As a bid of an off topic question, who would have won the Corbett v Jackson fight over 15?

    BAck to Jeffries, his final loss was to Johnson in the 15th. To me, it looks as if Jeffries had gassed by the 15th round. If this were the last round, it changes everything. It far easier to go for 1 more round than for another 45. I am not convinced that Johnson would have knocked Jeffries out after 15 rounds. In fact who knows, he may not have even knocked Jeffries down as in the 15th round, Jeffries would ahve had something to fight for and may have done enough to even avoid the knockdown. In the emotionally charged times, the decision would have been interesting here. From a legacy point of view, Jeffries legacy would have raised massively. Although this may have effected Johnson's legacy also.

    All in all, i think the 15 rounds makes no difference at all to how Jeffries would be viewed, all the possible loss of the undefeated tag may hurt his legacy a little (if it happened). It is quite ridiculous really that Jeffries power is questioned because some world class fighters went the distance with him (Sharkey, Ruhlin, Choynski) and because an ATG in Corbett lasted longer than 15 rounds before succumbing. Tyson, Foreman, Louis, Liston etc all had similar problems with world class fighters. It is a fact of boxing that you cant put on your very best performance every single day of the week. Even John L Sullivan who kod nearly evyone in 4 rounds had his share of longer fights.