Was Whitaker the naturally bigger fighter than Chavez when they fought?

Yes, Whitaker had a slight - not much - size advantage on JCC aswell as being 29 to JCCs 31.
Chavez looked slow in this fight & any hope that it was just because he was in there with Whitaker went out the window in his next few fights, he was a man on the slide & Whitaker was a man firmly in his prime yrs.
Still cant split them in an ATG list or a peak v peak match at 135, very difficult.

 

Look at them in the ring. Did he look naturally bigger? Not really. The weight wasn't a material factor in the fight. If the fight had been at 140 the same thing would have eventuated. Chavez simply couldn't find Whitaker enough to put real pressure on him, and against an even MORE mobile, FASTER version, he would not have done a better job.

You can't really say Chavez looked any different to what he had in the previous 2 or 3 years when he faced Whitaker. He was simply in with a superior foe who worked him over to the body, in effect beating him at his own game, and he tired in the later rounds as a result. During the start of the contest, Chavez looked as good as he ever had at 140, he certainly didn't look slow. He actually came out out quicker than he ever had, and had the commentators saying things like "I've never seen him this up for a fight before", "the aggressiveness is unbelievable", "when is Whitaker going to be conserve energy? Not tonight".

 

Interesting question with an easy answer but with implications one has to reason through.

Chavez defended his 140 lbs title four months before the Whitaker fight and then three months after Whitaker defended his 140 lbs title. Chavez only consistently started fighting over 140 lbs after his 1996 loss to de la Hoya on cuts. The Whitaker fight was 1993. Whitaker, on the other hand, fought at 148 lbs well more than a year prior to the Chavez fight and, weighing 147 lbs, won the world welterweight title six months prior to the Chavez fight. Three months before the McGirt fight, Whitaker weighed 148 lbs. By the standards of the day, Whitaker was a solid welterweight when he faced Chavez. Chavez was not.

Now, what should we make of these facts? In my experience, people are quick to point out that "Armstrong beat Ross and Armstrong was smaller than Chavez." True, Armstrong was not a welterweight when he beat Barney Ross. At the same time, Ross always weighed closer to the 140 lbs limit than to the 147 lbs limit even in non-title bouts. Ross weighed 142 lbs when he faced Armstrong. Whitaker was better than Ross, so Chavez had a much bigger mountain to climb. Armstrong would not have overwhelmed Whitaker like he did Ross. Chavez would have been a top welterweight in the late 1930s. The field was tougher in Whitaker's day.

What other natural 140 pounders would be successful against Whitaker? I can think of very few. Pryor is a possibility. He always comes into these discussions when I am debating boxing with my friends. I would pick Whitaker to outbox Pryor and I think that size has something to do with this. Like Armstrong, Chavez, and Ross, Pryor could easily make lightweight. You have to remember that at 28 years of age, Whitaker was a solid welterweight. In his early 30s, Chavez found it easy to make 140 lbs.

Of course, weight isn't everything. Age and career point are very important factors. Whitaker was still in his twenties and peaking. He was in the glory years of his brilliance. Chavez was in his 30s and slowing down. Had Chavez met Whitaker at 140 lbs in 1992, Whitaker, who was no whirlwind like Taylor, would not have been able to outpunch Chavez. Chavez would have likely imposed his will on Whitaker the way he did on Taylor, Camacho, and Rosario, three of the best boxers in any era. The moment at which Whitaker and Chavez faced off is one of the keys to understanding the outcome.

 

A much-needed dose of realism for a thread drowning in dewy-eyed denial.

 

Here's some of Chavez's weights:

Kenny Vice in 1989: 143 1/4
Rodolo Batta in 1989: 143
Tony Small in 1991: 145
Ignacio Pedromo in 1991: 146
Juan Soberanes in 1991: 144
Bruce Pearson in 1992: 146
Marty Jakubowski in 1992: 144

In 1991 Whitaker was easily making the lightweight limit, as a 27 year old. I think he moved up for new challenges more than having struggles with the weight. He probably did weight training to bulk up as a welterweight, but even as a welterweight he looked small compared to natural welters. Just look at him next to guys like Tito and DLH (who wasn't even a natural welter himself imo).

Chavez had been fighting at 140 for years before fighting Whitaker and he took fights against bums weighing in as a welterweight during that time, as the above figures show. Chavez simply didn't have the style to beat big welterweights, and that's why he never tried to do anything of note at welter. He couldn't grind out naturally bigger guys. I don't think Whitaker fits into that category. I simply don't see what size advantage had to do with their fight. Whitaker might have been a fraction bigger, but for all intents and purposes, it is a meaningless distinction to draw between them. Whitaker was simply a superior defensive fighter, who could mix it with bigger guys because he used a not get hit style, and didn't try and grind welters out, even though near the end of his career, that's what he got reduced to.

What evidence was there that Chavez was slowing down? I mean, what happened between 1992 and the time of the Whitaker fight that changed? The massacre of Haugen? The massacre of Alli? What showed that he was on the slide?

 

The Chavez excuse list looks like this:

- Whitaker was too big
- Whitaker was hitting low
- Whitaker was ducking down to the ground to avoid punches
- Whitaker ran
- Chavez was past his prime
- Chavez was above his best weight
- The Texan judge was biased for Whitaker

Have I left anything out?


What's really funny about all this was that Whitaker was small even compared to a lot of the lightweights he faced. Look at him next to guys like Mayweather, Pendleton, Ramirez for example. He was never a big fighter in any weight class he participated in.

 

Baloney.

Whitaker was a lightweight from the Olympics. Chávez's first professional title was at superfeatherweight.

San Antonio was Pea's 34th pro fight. It was Chávez's 88th. It was one man in his prime and another a tad shopworn sluggish.

Chávez most certainly did not look as good as he ever did at superlightweight, otherwise Whitaker would have been in a world of hurt.

The truth is, Pea's prime weight was one category above Chávez's.

 

A lightweight weighing 132 pounds.

When they were both in their mid twenties IN THEIR PRIME they were lightweights. Chavez was not at his best at 130. He was draining to get down to the weight in fact and nearly lost to Lockrdige and Laporte.

How many bums included into those 88 fights? Given the rich talent Whitaker was fighting as an amatuer, the difference between the two was not that marked in terms of being through the ringer.

Yeah if he met the one that was getting outboxed by Meldrick Taylor or struggling with Roger Mayweather he would have been in a bad bad way.

FALSE :good

 

The numbers don't add up for you, bud.

What is so hard to understand about one man being naturally bigger starting out as an amateur lightweight (Pea) than another breaking in professionally at around 121 (Chávez)?

Chávez did his best work at lightweight and superlightweight. Whitaker at lightweight and welterweight. What is mysterious about this?

Chávez climbed up to challenge Whitaker. What is difficult to comprehend about this?

88 straight wins is 88 straight wins, especially with 3 world titles to boot. And Chávez's victims are more formidable than Whitaker's: Mario "El Azabache" Martínez (33-1) at superfeatherweight; Edwin Rosario (31-2) at lightweight; Roger Mayweather (34-5) and Meldrick Taylor (24-0) at superlightweight. In fact, Whitaker went through some of Chávez's leftovers to do what he did.

If Chávez had fought a Julio César Vásquez for his fourth crown, there is no doubt he would have won a fourth title, too. In fact, Chávez left a legacy at his three weight classes. Whitaker did nothing at jr. welterweight nor jr. middleweight, beyond flashy Ray-Leonard title grabbing.

Whitaker was the naturally bigger fighter. Maybe by a tad, but Whitaker was the the naturally bigger fighter.

And, pound for pound, Pea has nothing on Chávez.

 

:blood and just what exactly do you mean by this????

 

I mean nothing more nor less than this: Whitaker's lauded accomplishments are perfectly paralleled overall by Chávez's accomplishments.

I mean that, at their best weight, age and form, Chávez vs. Whitaker is much too close to be dismissed as any Pea cakewalk.

 

Not that I agree with that at all, but your choice of words is poor at best, and at worst your backtracking to cover your bias.

Does not = perfectly paralleled.

 

thefreedictionary.com:

have nothing on someone: idiom:to have an advantage over someone.

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