Why does Ray Robinson get cut so much slack for quitting against Maxim...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Jorodz, Apr 20, 2009.


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  1. Jorodz

    Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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    but Maxim gets no credit for sticking with it. I've seen the fight in full. And one it's boring. Two, the heat was ridiculous and was so bad it took out one ref. But you all know that.

    The issue at hand is that Robinson wasn't the only one in that ring and under that heat. Maxim was under those lights. Maxim was under that sun. Maxim had 114 degrees pounding on him to. But he didn't quit.

    Every time this fight is brought up all that is mentioned is how Robinson dominated and lost "to the heat". Well Maxim didn't. Joey won cause he toughed out not only a dominating performance by Sugar Ray but the same heat that cause Robinson to quit. Robinson wasn't beaten by the sun. He was beaten by himself.

    Was that heat worse than Manilla? Was his pain worse than Ali's and Frazier's? **** no. He was tired, drained. He was hospitalized. But we've all seen others go through that and fight on til the end. We've seen the Wards, LaMottas, Gattis (well in the old days), Fullmer's and Basillo's go through hell. But because he's the great sugar ray, people let it slide. You think Gene Fullmer would have quit?

    I think Maxim deserves more credit for this win and that Sugar Ray, one of if not the greatest boxer ever, should be seen a little more earthly and human. He had faults and weaknesses and that day, they shone through.
     
    Jorodz, Apr 20, 2009
    Jorodz, Apr 20, 2009
    #1
  2. FINITO

    FINITO Boxing Junkie banned

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    " the heat "

    lol
     
    FINITO, Apr 20, 2009
    FINITO, Apr 20, 2009
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  3. stevebhoy87

    stevebhoy87 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    1) Robinson collapsed in his corner and was physically unable to answer the bell, he never quit his body gave up on him.

    2) Sure i agree that maxim deserves credit for the fight and lasting the distance and pacing himself well, robinson was quite easily outboxing him for most of the fght so that is probably why he doesn't get a great amount of credit for it

    3) The reason robinson collapsed and maxim didn't was the fight that robinson was forced to fight, as he was far smaller he was on the move for a large portion of the fight and wore himself out, also robinson was not physically that strong, the clinches they had would have sapped his strength far more than maxim. Still a wins and win and joey deserves credit for it
     
    stevebhoy87, Apr 20, 2009
    stevebhoy87, Apr 20, 2009
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  4. BlueApollo

    BlueApollo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I can live with my legends falling to heat exhaustion outdoors on a triple digit day four modern weight classes outside of their natural weight. We build myths out of fighters, but at the end of the day, of course they are human with human failings. Even the best of them.
     
    BlueApollo, Apr 20, 2009
    BlueApollo, Apr 20, 2009
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  5. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    It's fairly clear that without the 100+ degree heat Robinson wins wide. Maxim withstood the heat better than Robinson, but Ray expended far more energy in the fight as he was forced to move far more than the bigger Maxim, who came in weighing nearly 20lbs more than him.

    And Robinson did not just decide to quit because he wasn't tough or something. He collapsed and was suffering from hyperthermia.

    Maxim outlasted a much smaller man in blistering heat, I think he tends to get credit for that. He did not however truly best Ray Robinson, and does not recieve credit for doing so.
     
    the cobra, Apr 20, 2009
    the cobra, Apr 20, 2009
    #5
  6. ron u.k.

    ron u.k. Boxing Addict banned

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    What a ridiculous thread.You've watched the fight? You sure? So you didn't notice Robinson's legs giving way and him collapsing.He quit? You're having a joke right?
     
    ron u.k., Apr 20, 2009
    ron u.k., Apr 20, 2009
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  7. sweetscientist

    sweetscientist Yori Boy Die Hard Full Member

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    agreed on all counts. i was really surprised by this thread...i don't think i have ever heard anyone misrepresent the fight to this degree. after 135 fights, more than 25 pounds outside his best weight, twelve years as a pro during which he fought wars with more world champions than any fighter in boxing history, ray robinson was betrayed by a battle-worn body, not by his will or heart. both he an maxim were both in advanced stages of boxing decrepitude by that point (maxim had nearly 100 fights by the time of their meeting), robinson was just facing more wear and more disadvantages...and he still nearly managed to pull it out.
     
    sweetscientist, Apr 20, 2009
    sweetscientist, Apr 20, 2009
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  8. Arriba

    Arriba Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Because he didn't quit...he passed out.

    Big f*cking difference pal.
     
    Arriba, Apr 20, 2009
    Arriba, Apr 20, 2009
    #8
  9. Jorodz

    Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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    hmmm, i like these two responses. It is a different way of looking at it. I think maybe "quit" is a strong word. He was ill conditioned for the fight to be certain. Yes he was taking the fight to a much bigger man, but he KNEW he would be fighting that style and that pace. He should have been better prepared. Maxim was destroyed and any other night would have lost but again, a win is a win
     
    Jorodz, Apr 20, 2009
    Jorodz, Apr 20, 2009
    #9
  10. Jorodz

    Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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    I've seen the fight a few times and I apologize if I'm wrong but from my memory he was gassed out and yes, there is a difference. If he PASSED out then well ****, nothing against that. But if he was GASSED (ala Wlad Brewster, Hearns-Leonard) that's a different story. His legs were not under him no. But if this were not Sugar Ray, people would give him more **** for it.
     
    Jorodz, Apr 20, 2009
    Jorodz, Apr 20, 2009
    #10
  11. Jorodz

    Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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    The human idea is what I was trying to get across. He is not overrated on this, or any forum, but he is too deified. He was one of the best two fighters ever and nearly perfect...BUT he did have faults. Historians and casual fans rate him between Superman and Jesus.
     
    Jorodz, Apr 20, 2009
    Jorodz, Apr 20, 2009
    #11
  12. smitty_son408

    smitty_son408 J ust E njoy T his S hit Full Member

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    He almost died of heat exhaustion...not even close to "no mas".
     
    smitty_son408, Apr 20, 2009
    smitty_son408, Apr 20, 2009
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  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No need for any more posting in this thread. Just read this one here!
     
    McGrain, Apr 20, 2009
    McGrain, Apr 20, 2009
    #13
  14. BlueApollo

    BlueApollo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Personally, I've got him KOing Superman and dropping a split to Jesus.
     
    BlueApollo, Apr 20, 2009
    BlueApollo, Apr 20, 2009
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  15. The Funny Man 7

    The Funny Man 7 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yep, thread closed.
     
    The Funny Man 7, Apr 20, 2009
    The Funny Man 7, Apr 20, 2009
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