Ali's GREATNESS...truth, fiction or in between?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by spion, Apr 21, 2009.


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  1. hhascup

    hhascup Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Styles make fights and Ali was a bad match for Sonny. The Moore that lost to Rocky or Patterson, would have lost to Sonny as well. If Sonny fought any other Top 10 contender on that night, he would have won.
     
    hhascup, Apr 21, 2009
    hhascup, Apr 21, 2009
    #31
  2. The Predator

    The Predator Active Member Full Member

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    Yes he was and is the greatest. Just look at who he fought. That´s answer enough. He fought them all and beat them all. In his prime no one would have beaten him, not even Joe Louis. Ali was to fast and to hard to hit. So yes, in my opinion he is the greatest.
    All the best
    The predator
     
    The Predator, Apr 21, 2009
    The Predator, Apr 21, 2009
    #32
  3. groove

    groove Well-Known Member Full Member

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    good posts and excellent stats on ali, louis and rocky. shows how great ali really was :thumbsup
     
    groove, Apr 21, 2009
    groove, Apr 21, 2009
    #33
  4. spion

    spion Active Member Full Member

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    When someone says the phrase who is the greatest to an average guy sports fan or not, the most likely reply is Muhammad Ali. Because of Ali's boasting through the years that he is The Greatest, that phrase has become synonymous with Muhammad Ali. Now lets say Ali had a personality more along the lines of Ezzard Charles or Jim Jeffries. Would the general public at large, boxing fans included be so likely to name him the greatest fighter of all time? I think that possibly that title would go to Ray Robinson. What would have happened if Sugar Ray had been shouting I am The Greatest during his years in the ring? Is there a psychological connection to someone saying something over and over again and people accepting it as truth? Obviously as mentioned earlier Muhammad did indeed have a career worthy of number one status but he was also using The Greatest phrase long before anyone could begin to justify him as The Greatest.

    The reason I bring this up is a test I did with people to check this hypothesis for marketing and advertising. I mentioned the phrase "who is the greatest" , "who is the greatest of all time" and "who is the greatest fighter of all time". Most people (sports fans and not) said Muhammad Ali after the statement "greatest of all time"...no connection whatsoever to boxing. Some needed the following one or two phrases but at no time was boxing ever mentioned. Muhammad Ali made this statement so often that apparently it has seeped into the minds of people where it has become mentally linked to Ali. Ali was a masterful marketing person for not only his fights, but for his fans and anyone within earshot as he will probably be forever remembered as The Greatest...the label he bestowed upon himself and we have accepted, sportsfan or no.
     
    spion, Apr 21, 2009
    spion, Apr 21, 2009
    #34
  5. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That is one heavy post. Excellent stats!:good:good
     
    Bokaj, Apr 22, 2009
    Bokaj, Apr 22, 2009
    #35
  6. turpinr

    turpinr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    :think:think

    what a load of crap!!!


    general consesus has liston at about 35 when ali beat him,but there's a world of difference between moore and ali at heavyweight. i don't think moore would have fought sonny given the option.
    as for ali being the greatest,theres no other heavweight's record anywhere near his.
     
    turpinr, Apr 22, 2009
    turpinr, Apr 22, 2009
    #36
  7. ron u.k.

    ron u.k. Boxing Addict banned

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    True he could be a ****,and to an extent he was manipulated by people with an agenda especially when he was younger,although he was very intellegent and was quite capable of choosing his own path in life. But you see just below the surface there was always humility,charm and that intellegence,which is something the so called modern day exponents you mention wouldn't know if it stared them in the face. Ali was actually a million miles away from those guys.
     
    ron u.k., Apr 22, 2009
    ron u.k., Apr 22, 2009
    #37
  8. gregor

    gregor Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I am not sure if Norton was not the same because of Ali. He should've won the trilogy after all, and I think it was rather more than three years that made the difference.

    I agree politics has probably a lot to do with Ali becoming "The Greatest" (whis not to say he wasn't great champ).

    He lost to Frazier (OK, Frazier was ATG so it is not that bad), to Norton (which is worse, especially as he should've lost one more time). His win over Doug Jones and "TKO" over Lyle do not make things any better.
     
    gregor, Apr 22, 2009
    gregor, Apr 22, 2009
    #38
  9. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Liston went down by a TAP, I pretty sure Moore from the Marciano fight would beat that Liston.
     
    Dempsey1238, Apr 22, 2009
    Dempsey1238, Apr 22, 2009
    #39
  10. flamengo

    flamengo Coool as a Cucumber. Full Member

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    Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah , Blah..........

    Compare the records, name the shame, make excuses, mis-quote, hypothesyce, mumbo-jumbo.. etc etc etc..


    Ali will be remembered in 1000 years from now. Others will be remembered due to HIM.

    THATS GREATNESS!!!!
     
    flamengo, Apr 22, 2009
    flamengo, Apr 22, 2009
    #40
  11. turpinr

    turpinr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    yes,well done,but why did he go down ???
     
    turpinr, Apr 22, 2009
    turpinr, Apr 22, 2009
    #41
  12. hhascup

    hhascup Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree 100%

    Thanks, I have up-dated Louis's STATS somewhat as I forgot to add Cesar Brion to the contenders he fought when he fought them, BUT still Ali comes out on top.

    Louis fought 35 out of 71 opponents while they were rated in the top 10. He beat 32 of them 45.07%

    Ali fought 38 out of 61 opponents while they were in the top 10. He beat 33 of them 54.098%

    Thanks!

    Very well put.

    Excellent way of stating things as they are.
     
    hhascup, Apr 22, 2009
    hhascup, Apr 22, 2009
    #42
  13. ray fredrickson

    ray fredrickson Member Full Member

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:Dempsey1238 really your only fair guy here!!!! Cooper 2 when fought clay, Folley number1 cmon you can fool girlies like kaki girlie you sweet boy:lol::lol::lol:
     
    ray fredrickson, Apr 22, 2009
    ray fredrickson, Apr 22, 2009
    #43
  14. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He was a great among the greats. Hyped? Yes -- but there's a big difference between being hyped and being hype.
     
    guilalah, Apr 22, 2009
    guilalah, Apr 22, 2009
    #44
  15. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Liston at his BEST would beat Moore, but Liston was no were near his best when Ali took him. He relie on cheating when things were not going his way, and did a belly flop in the rematch.

    With all things being the same, I think Moore takes him, He took the Valez, and other heavyweight contenders, so I think Moore has more than a shot vs Liston.
     
    Dempsey1238, Apr 22, 2009
    Dempsey1238, Apr 22, 2009
    #45
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