Louis vs Tyson

If you followed Tysons career closely, he basically peaked at the Spinks fight. This was the best and most angry version of Tyson with a real boxing team in place.
After that fight he basically fired everyone. Enter John Horne and Rory Holloway, Tysons buddies with no experience in boxing management, who took over for Bill Cayton and the recently deceased Jim Jacobs.
Enter Aaron Snowell and Jay Bright as trainers taking over for Kevin Rooney. Snowell was a low level assistant with some experience and a loyal follower of Don King. Jay Bright, an inspiring actor, who lived with Tyson for a brief period in Catskill, had no other training experience other than being with Tyson in the gym when he was younger. Tyson went from a disciplinary trainer who put curfews on him and didnt take crap from Tyson, to basically a team of friends who let Tyson do whatever he wanted. It was inevitable what was going to happen. In as early as his first fight without Rooney, Tyson was badly rocked by Bruno and swung wildly the entire fight. Two fights later he was on his back against Douglas.
Richie Giachetti replaced Snowell and Bright, but Giachetti trained Larry Holmes, and was more of a traditional boxing trainer, he was not a trainer who trained his fighters in the D'Amato style, which was a very unique style, perfect for a man of Tyson's physical attributes. A shorter man with a lot of speed bobbing, weaving and countering off of his opponents shots as he moved forward. So really there was a big difference in Tyson. Training is repetitious, to the point where it becomes second nature in a fight. When you get away from that repetition, it changes things.

 

Agreed,

I misunderstood your position....Happens when one joins a conversation without following its full course.

 

Tyson lunged in with a wild shot and was hit with a counter body shot that knocked him off balance and he fell. It was a balance KD, Tyson wasn't hurt.

 

He was stunned a few times (Bruno 1, Tucker) but the key word is stunned. Tucker hit him with a nice uppercut that stunned Tyson for about 2 seconds, but then he went back to work.

My point is Tyson was never put in SERIOUS trouble unless he took a hellacious beating, at which point anyones chances of winning is close to zero. Faulting Tyson for never getting off the canvas and winning is unfair in my opinion because of the fact he was so hard to hurt and drop.

 

Louis had a good chin, don't get me wrong. I usually defend his chin actually, for many the reasons you listed.

But Louis WAS dropped and hurt much more than Tyson, even at his best. Of course much of this is due to the freakish number of contenders he fought, but if he had an ATG chin he wouldn't of been dropped as many times as he was.

Louis was superior to Tyson in terms of recovering and recuperative ability, and Tyson was superior to Louis in terms of the ability to NOT get hurt.

In this fight, I believe Tyson would get the better of him for that reason :good.

 

It's funny. I can envision Joe Louis surviving the early attack of Jack Dempsey , but I can't see him surviving against Iron Mike.

 

Tyson could take Louis' best shots for the time it lasts, while Louis couldn't take Tyson's. Tyson would move too fast for Louis. Louis couldn't last long enough to get his counterpunches going. Tyson overwhelms Louis ten our of ten times.

 

I thnk your asesment of both fighters durability is esentialy acurate.

I also think that there are suficient stylistic dynamics between them that it will not necisarily come down to who has the better chin.

Neither of their chins is bad enough to save you if the fight isnt going your way.

I see several factors being important here:

Louis likes his oponent coming straight at him and Tyson will oblige. If Louis can back up just enough to keep Tyson coming towards him he can do a lot of damage.

Despite his longer reach Louis is esentialy better on the inside which might prove decisive.

Louis dosnt particularly like being crowded, or shorter fighters. If his fight plan isnt working he will be slow to adapt it which he cant aford.

Louis has a habit of getting up without taking the full count. Not necisarily a good idea in this case.

If it gets past a certain number of rounds the dynamic decisively shifts towards Louis. Would Louis be prepared to spoil his way through the early rounds by holding?

 

This makes sense to me. Taking the blows of someone nearly 40 pounds heavier than dempsey(and just as fast if not faster) certainly wouldn't help louis cause.

 

That shouldn't be funny nor surprising at all.. Tyson was probably 35-40 Lbs heavier, more polished, and proven against modern heavyweights who in most cases were bigger, stronger and faster. Therefore, Louis's chances SHOULD be greater in surviving Dempsey as opposed to Tyson.

 

In some waysI see the dynamic the other way.

I think there is one key gap in Tysons game that Louis might be able to exploit which he would not be able to with Dempsey.

 

What's the key gap?