There has never been a weak era at heavyweight in the 20th century

The heavyweight divison was rather weak after Tunney retired, and before Louis beat Braddock. The WW II years were lean too.

 

I see it more like the heavyweights are the weakest division in boxing after Ali left the scene. Out of weight guys who do not have much discipline. The good thing about the Klitchkos are that we do not have to watch guys like Tubbs and Tucker and Pinklon Thomas box . They cleaned out the division of fighters like that.

 

Interesting point Mendoza.. "after Tunney retired".

Had Tunney not retired, this era may have shown just how weak the previous decade had been, regarding fantastic match-ups.

No doubt, after Tunney retired, the title changes were less than classic, until the welcoming of Louis' title shot. I do wonder however, just how you think Tunney might fare against Max Schmeling, as his next possible defence (yes, Max was still in Germany when Tunney retired, yet Tunney was not one defend frequently), or Johnny Risko in a title bout, or Jack Sharkey??

I guess there is no right or wrong, as all eras have positives and negatives when talking in individual decades.

 

I really think that one of the biggest problems with the current era is that the contenders wont fight each other and wont fight regularly. The champion has always fought less and picked and choosed who he fights. But now, because the contenders simply dont fight each other there never is or can be a standout challenger. If the their was just one world champion and the the top 10 (outside the champion) fought each other every month or so, the current era would seem a lot better than it is. I also think that it would force contenders to fight and be in shape all the time which means weights would drop dramatically and punch outputs would increase massively. I still think it would be a weak era, but nowhere near as bad as it currently is.

 

I think the heavyweight division prior to the mid-1950s was weak compared to other divisions and the heavyweight division after the mid-1950s. Especially weak compared to the other divisions were the 1940s. This was a dismal period, in fact. Other divisions were affected, as well.

 

It balances itself out pretty good, we are now in the 21st century but there have been spells of a few years but the decades balance out. I have been around boxing for quite sometime and I do not really see an era that would not be competitive with another, including today...the era of the Large and Long amatuer resume and some have long careers in kick boxing as well...These fighters would cause trouble in any era like JJWalcott would also....they are looking to kill the sport of boxing...but whatever sport than boxing can show you what is inside a man

 

I think what we need to clearify when we use the term "weak", is that it doesn't necessarily mean weak in general. What it refers to is the fact that a given period in the sport was probably less talent filled than a large number of others. Rather than use the term weak

oops someone's at the door, have to continue later...

 

Since when is period 2000-20009 part of the 20th century ?

As for comparing some of those. David Haye is and was a ripped 6'3 215lbs, tell me how that compares to some of the skinny 20's "heavyweights". Byrd is 6'1 207lbs with barely any fat on it. Roy Jones weighs 190lbs for all his lightheavyweight bouts, which is more than the average 20's heavyweight, dito for Toney. Toney's record against HW contenders is 1-1-1-1, with the only win coming against a 42 year old Holyfield with a shoulder injury... if that's the epitome of a naturally smaller fighter having success at heavyweight, then **** me. As for Holyfield, he had succesfully bulked up at 212lbs and was 6'2" to start with, and weighed 200lbs or more since his early 20's.

Now tell me, during this period, does the white champion duck behind the "color" line, even under protest of a racist crowd, to avoid the half of the challengers out there?

Obviously the colour bar screwed these eras up but that dosnt detract from the level of talent that was potentialy available.[/quote]

Pure speculation, and even if there was more talent, half of the talent was destroyed by the white boxers hiding behind the color line. The heavyweight talent was **** poor. Brennan, Miske, Fulton, are you kidding me? The only good heavies were Dempsey and Wills, half of which was eliminated by the color line.

Exactly.

 

till 1990 the eastern european fighter weren't allowed to become pro, and the cubans till today too, so there is a big what would have been if...
imagine some eastern european fighters would have beaten the great american fighters in the 60,70,80... and all americans would have said that where all weak heavyweights periods...

 

Hmmmmmm..... I'm not sold on the 10s and 50s............ Jack Johnson and Rocco Marciano fought some questionable or aging dudes during those times......

Again, I love and admire Ol' Johnson, but he did beat up some dudes like "Jeffries, Ketchel & Jim Flynn" who were either old, small or crude as all hell........

Rocco Marciano fought some great names, but those names were all near or over age 40 when they were beaten by Rocco.......

Jack Dempsey JACKED OFF the title belt pretty hard from 1919 to 1926... Hammering "Gibbons & Carpentier" is no big surprise.....

We did have some weak links / moments in heavyweight boxing in the 20th century........

MR.BILL

 

After Tunney retired, there were no title shots for two years. I think Tunney would have defeated Sharkey and Schmeling. He cost himself a greater legacy, but got out of the game with his marbles.

The early 30's were a weak time in boxing full of champions who could not make 1 title defense, and marred with DQ's and gambling.

 

'Twas bad for history and the books in regards to the early 1930s boys like "Schmeling, Sharkey, Carnera, Baer & Braddock" winning and losing the title left & right over a 7 year period from 1930 to 1937..... That was bad...

Then we had the WBA Chumps from 1982 to 1987 like "Dokes, Coetzee, Page, Tubbs, Spoon & Smith" all taking turns holding the title for a year or less...... WEAK!! Plus, we might as well add other title holding Chumps like "Thomas, Berbick & Tony Tucker" into that fiasco of a mess...... GEEZ!

I'm sorry, but you'll never be regarded as a great champion by winning and blowing a title........
:-deal:rasta:admin

MR.BILL:scaredas:

 

Got me there!

Because for most of his fights he has weighed under 200lbs. To be honest, while i dont give him much chance, the lighter his body weight, the better chance he has of taking Vlad the distance and scoring the upset, imo. If Haye trained for endurance rather than power, he would be well under 200lbs. He could easily weigh in the 180s like those skinny heavyweights you talk about, and like he has previously done early in his career.

And he got stopped by the first decent light heavyweight he faced. Lucky he wasnt around in the 20s when there were dozens of light heavys willing to step up against the bigger guys.

He wasnt just small, he was old, out of shape and obesley overweight! I find it hard to believe that he goes 1-1-1-1 with the best light heavys of this era. Hopkins, among others would outland him 3 to one and cruise to an easy UD. Roy Jones certainly was better as an old heavy than an old light heavy, although in fairness, at least he was an in shape old heavy. Imagine what the competive Toney would have done if he actually stayed in shape, or even better fought at heavy at a younger age (and weight) if he can be competitive like he is now.

So did most o fthe skinny heavys of the 20s. It is just that training methods differed (not necessarilly for the better either). An inshape holy should weigh less than 200. I highly doubt that this version of holly slows down and gases like he did against Bowe and Lewis (or even moorer).

Maybe not a colour line, but fighters certainly draws the line through half (or more acurately a two thirds) of the challengers. Vlad point blank refuses to fight his brother the clear no 1 contender. It is near impossible for him to fight the other world champion Russian Chageav (another clear contender). Instead, he fights manufactured fights against built up inexperienced fighters like Austin or whoever. Each organisation only ranks certain fighters while certain promoters seem to virtually limit challengers to those that sign the right options dealls. Add this to the fact that no colour line is need because most of the clear contenders refuse point blank to fight each other. In fact, they will only take a fight if the challenger is a name, vulnerable fighter. Saying that, the older fighters now are currently dominating/or at least competive with the young brigade at a time when they really have no right to be. Holyfield cant be stopped by the superheavys. I would actually give him a chance against both klitchskos. No one can knock out the ancient McCall, who really wasnt that great to start with. The ancient Golota seems to win every time he fights contenders and only the very best of the generation seem to be able to beat him, even though he is nothing like he was in speed and skills and in any case Tyson and Lewis both showed he was never a world beater to start with. It all adds up to show that the current era really does struggle to compete, as i said before, i am fairly sure that the problem is that contenders will no longer fight each other. They want the easy ride that comes with few losses. I honestly think that if they fought each other, not only would the era improve from it (from a skills point of view) but it would also make for a far more exciting era. Obviously a unified champion would help massively too.








Obviously the colour bar screwed these eras up but that dosnt detract from the level of talent that was potentialy available.[/quote]

Pure speculation, and even if there was more talent, half of the talent was destroyed by the white boxers hiding behind the color line. The heavyweight talent was **** poor. Brennan, Miske, Fulton, are you kidding me? The only good heavies were Dempsey and Wills, half of which was eliminated by the color line.




Exactly.[/quote]