Head to head, overall, is Ike Williams right up there with Duran/Whitaker?

Well, Leonard is a little too straight up and down. I would agree that he is a late transition boxer. But his reflexes, smarts, and skills were extraordinary.

 

Ever hear of ESTEBAN DEJESUS?? :nono

 

LOL, didn't see this post here. I think this sums it all up perfectly.

 

BTW, wasn't Barney Ross the guy who was nicknamed "The Father of Modern Boxing"?

 

I think your definition of a modern boxer is as good as any.There are exceptions , some fighters that pre date the 20's who were very skilled by all accounts.
Joe Bowker ,won the Bantamweight title in1904.
Pete Herman , won it in1917,Owen Moran 1907.
Feathers ,Attell,Driscoll,both prior the 20's.
Light, Gans ,Ritchie, Welsh .
Welter,Walcott,Dixie Kid,Britton,Lewis.
Middle? The 160 pounders seemed to be more punchers than boxers in the main,before the 20's.
Lhvy's,Dillon and Levinsky.Then a Golden Age of 175 pounders in Loughran Slatterry,Berlenbach,Delaney,Up to the 30's with Rosenbloom.
Heavy's?Well Corbett,Johnson,Jeannette, Tunney were all skilled men.

 

Back are you? Well you can stay for now,but any trouble and off you go!

 

cheers

obviously there are exceptions as you list

but i think in the late 20s early 30s boxing was still in the transisition period and Leonard was the outstanding boxer of that period for me as many fighters were still in that cruder boxing style from the older days

 

Manassa's back.

 

yes,i'd pick dejesus to beat leonard too

 

you really are a comedianunless you actally saw these men !!

 

I think we have established beyond any doubt ,the level of your knowledge and expertise in this area.
On Benny Leonard, "only 5 5in and nobody of that stature is going to last long with Duran".
I and another pointed out that Esteban Dejesus at 5 41/2in beat a prime Duran and gave him three close fights flooring him twice.
Your fatuous comment gives us all an insight into the depth of your comprehension of boxing .
Don't waste your time here ,and ,more importantly ,don't waste ours.Youv'e mugged yourself. atsch

 

what is your boxing background OH great and stuck in the past one

 

I boxed amateur, for about 8 years , kept on sparring for another 3 or 4 , have followed boxing for 50 years,have around 100 books and about 200 films and videos on the sport,I helped train at a club, my family have allways been in the game,I have had conversations with some ex pros.ie Larry Gains, Tommy Farr,and writers like Reg Gutteridge.Ive had several conversations with an ex sparring partner of your name sake Turpin,and generally try and keep up with the sport.
NO WAY AM I AN EXPERT,BUT, I sincerely beleive Ive forgotten more about boxing than you know, I base this opinion on your posts,which I have uniformly found to be 1. negative towards others,2. ill informed .3 .naive.
Now prove me wrong write something sensible.:good

 

ok then ,who is this ex-sparring partner of randy's.
i met someone on holiday once who said he'd been turpin's sparring partner and should have gone to the states with him.
he said turpin was terrified of being cut and also said he could hear his punches whistle when they missed !!!

i boxed amateur for 6 months as a junior and 4 years as a senior ,carried on sparring with the lads ,trained some schoolboys,made a comeback and then jacked it in in 1984.

in the attic i've got about 100 ring magazines,more boxing news' including one announcing the fact that jack solomon had signed robinson to defend against turpin (june 51),books galore and programmes.

i sincerely doubt that you have forgotten more about boxing than i know and just because you believe that all fighters were better in the distant past ,doesn't make it so.:hi:

 

I've never experienced Manassa before. I thought that was quite a good post. Is he viewed with derision in here???