Is Holyfield top 10?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bokaj, Apr 30, 2009.


  1. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Does Holyfield qualify as a top 10 HW? He has great victories over Tyson, but he lost his series against Bowe and Lewis, and struggled with quite a lot of his opponents. So did he do enough to get into a top 10?
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think a place can be justified, sure. The wins over Tyson are no joke. Tyson had just butchered the HW title holders, Holyfield was also past his best for those fights. And he has Bowe. They are better wins than anything Lewis has, for example, in terms of flat out top wins.

    But the counter-argument is just a tad stronger IMO. I have Holyfield outside. I think something like 9-14 is about the right range for him.
     
  3. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah, my thoughts as well. Let's hope that someone disagrees vehemently, so we get a discussion going.

    How many would put Wills above him, for example? I probably would.

    And is his victory over Tyson even close to Frazier's over Ali? If so, there could certainly be an argument to put Holy ahead of Frazier.
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Wills is above him for sure.

    I don't rate the Tyson win over the Ali win at all. I just think Ali was flat out better, and he was definitely greater.
     
  5. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Yes and no, it just depends if you think others deserve to be above him, simple as that.
     
  6. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    YES! Holy at age 46 is still top-10............ In fact, he should be WBA champ right now................ Holy was robbed in Switzerland last December....... Even though "Holy-Valuev" stunk up the place real bad..... Still, a win is a win....... Holy got his colon cleansed.......
    :patsch:twisted::scaredas::blood:admin

    MR.BILL:bbb
     
  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No, very few would rate Holyfield's win over Tyson ahead of Frazier's over Ali. But it can be argued that they are reasonably close.

    Tyson was probably no further past his prime than Ali was in FOTC. He had been back in boxing longer and his last win was more decisive than Ali's over Bonavena. Also, Holyfield was himself past his prime and hadn't impressed for in his last couple of fight, whereas Frazier came off his perhaps two most impressive perfomances yet. Finally, Holyfield's victory was more decisive. He dished out a beating without taking one in return, and won by KO. Ali is of course greater than Tyson, but h2h many tend to have them closer than in overall rankings.
     
  8. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Holyfield was a great fighter, no question. He fought everybody, ducked no one ... as a matter of fact a strong argument can be made that after Ali he fought the best competition of any other heavyweight champ ... I definately put him in my top ten ...
     
  9. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I have in my top 10, but have place him on the lower tier of it, usually somewhere between 8-10. Holyfield probably has less padding on his resume than nearly almost any heavyweight champion that ever lived and is the division's only 5 time world titlist. He also came within a **** hair of taking another strap at the age of 46 and against the largest titlist in the sport's history. Unlike Michael Spinks or David Haye, Spinks earned his first heavyweight title shot by beating a string of legitimately good fighters before scoring a destructive KO over a man who had beaten the man. His battle with Dokes is in my book, one of the greatest heavyweight fights in history and his coming back to beat a very formidable Riddick Bowe ads great substance to his credentials. Both Tyson and Holyfield were past it by the time they met, but both were still considered as being at least 2 of the best 3 heavys in the world and there is no question in my mind who won both of those fights. Ad a few second teir wins over guys like Michael Moorer, John Ruiz and George Foreman, and you got a pretty solid legacy.

    The only reason I don't rate him higher is because he lost the Bowe trilogy, and ended up with a career end record of something like 24-10-2-13, or thereabouts. Most of of his losses came past prime, or under unfavorable circumstances however, and need to be taken with a grain of sult.
     
  10. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Holyfield imo was past it when he met lewis
     
  11. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    what title holders? Bruce "im scared to death" seldon? frank "I dont wanna be here" bruno? tyson was washed up and people didnt even realize it, all he had left was intimidation factor and some power. Tysons physical skills and mental make up were LONG GONE. he was rusted as hell too 4 years out of ring.
     
  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    idk, tyson was pretty far gone. All he has was power and intimidation. His combinations, defense, etc were gone. his skills, gone.
     
  13. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    He was still fairly destructive and viewed by most as still one of the best in the division. Of the two them, Holyfield was viewed as being further past his prime and rightfully so.
     
  14. diamondDave

    diamondDave Boxing Addict Full Member

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    How could he not be in the top ten of all time!!!! Probably should be in the top five of all time. Multiple titles, wins over the best of his two decades worth of boxing including Bowe, Tyson, Rahman, Holmes, Foreman, Mercer, Moorer, just to name a few.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Arguably yes .Who do you leave out to make room for him ? Thats the problem. imo.