Marciano vs. Norton

Axe,

Give me a break........ Marciano was carefully managed and his title days were NOT all that tough of an era...... PUH-LEASE! Spare me the song and dance.......... Middle aged white guys need to stop riding Marciano's nut-sack...... Rocky Marciano was a fine fighter and a good champion, but I can name 10 guys past or present that I think could've taken him apart or to school..... Nuff said........... Jesus......

MR.BILL

 

thats not true. With Modern nutrition supplements weight training marciano could easily come in at 205lb without sacrificing speed . REMEMBER marciano naturally weighed well above 200lb in his prime and cut down to 185lb...this is what his brother told me personally. If marciano hits weight lifting, doing lifts like cleans and deadlifts...he will build up his fast twitch muscles meaning he will be MORE explosive kinda like a tyson.

 

Here's what my good friend Bert had:

[FONT=&quot]Sugar's top 10 heavyweights[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: 2006

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Gene Tunney
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Ezzard Charles
8. George Foreman
9. Joe Frazier
10. Larry Holmes

Source: "Ringside: The Ten Greatest Heavyweights," ESPN Classic


[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Bert Sugar, 1991[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

1.Jack Dempsey
2.Joe Louis
3.Muhammad Ali
4.Jack Johnson
5.Gene Tunney
6.Rocky Marciano
7.Joe Frazier
8.Larry Holmes
9.Sonny Liston
10.Mike Tyson[/FONT]

I asked him why did he change several rtaings such as Dempsey from #1 to #3. He said that he learned to listen to what others had to say. I also asked him about Rocky, and why he was rated at #6 and he said because of his record, and if he lost to either Lowry or LaStarza, which could have gone either way, he would be rated out of his top 10.
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

carefully managed you mean the way his management sent him in the ring in 5 out of his 6 title defenses vs Ring Magazine # 1 contenders, and that they ducked nobody during his title reigning years?

 

Fair enough.... See.... That's the **** I'm talkin' bout.......... Dempsey at # 1 and Larry Holmes down at the lower bottom...... Yeah, I'll have another drink..... Christ......
atsch

MR.BILL

 

****.......name 10.

And what's with the race and age assumption? And today's tallent pool?

Have you seen today's fighters? Guys today are Juan Ma Lopez, straight up and down, hands up, little headmovement, mostly brute force and sharp punches.

Is that tallent to you?

Rocky was in an era where people could actually fight, and people wanted to fight as boxing was mainstream when today the tallent pool is ****.

Anyway, name those 10.

 

You might name 10,000 guys you personally think would beat Marciano. But the historical facts are that he is the only heavyweight champion of the 20th century to win all his fights, he knocked out a higher percentage of opponents than any other 20th century heavyweight champion, he has the highest winning percentage and knockout percentage against Hall-of-Famers, champions, or rated or ever rated opponents, of any fighter in the Hall of Fame.

 

I talked with Sugar Personally before. The guy is a good story teller, but I think his knowledge is very limited for a "famous" historian.

he puts way too much emphasis into the 49-0 rather than the fact Marciano went 6-0 with 5 knockouts against hall of famers, knocked out every Ring Magazine top 10 heavyweight contender he faced, and had a style on film that would cause pure hell for any heavyweight in any era.


I remember in Rocky Marciano ringside, Teddy Atlas a very knowledable boxing man completley owned sugar when discussing marciano's defense...sugar was saying he had the best right hand in history but no defense, and atlas was breaking down the Walcott I film showing little things marciano did on defense that were very effective. Clearly a much better boxing mind.

 

good stuff

 

200 plus pounds was not good for Marciano at all.... He was a natural heavy kid when he was young... He has been at 210 to 215 pounds before.... Yes, lotsa' fat, etc.... I know that.... But Marciano trained his aging ass off in '69 for the comp. fight with Ali.... Marciano weighed-in at 200 pounds even, and appeared slightly thick around the middle, as well.. Granted Rocco was around 45 yrs old in 1969, but he was chunky at 200 pounds.....
:bbb

MR.BILL

 

Marciano had excellent defense. His technique of getting lower than your opponent with a sideways lean makes it nearly impossible to hit him with any punch.

Taller opponents will have to reach in against him which will often leave their chins exposed.

Only the greatest fighters in the sport like Walcott who was a master at keeping his chin protected, a figther who Bernard Hopkins mimics, and Ezzard Charles could really avoid being hit clean.

You'll see the same thing happen against Klitschko when he fights Haye who will employ a similiar tactic of using his opponents height against him.

The only thing that Haye may lack is nerves, and he needs a little refinenment and we might be watching a relic from the past.

 

Marciano was 46 years old. at that age ur body naturally SAGS and u get natural flab in lower midsection due to old age, and btw I believe Marciano weighed 220lb for the computer fight, cutting down from 270lb. Rocky still looked imposing for an old man though....Ali came out of that sparring session with a whole new respect for Marciano and he told Angelo Dundee in private. Said Marciano was alot harder to hit with a jab than he looks, and he said he couldnt believe how strong and how hard hitting marciano must have been in his prime, because 46 year old marciano body blows left Ali with welts and red swells all over his midsection. Ali critisized practically every heavyweight champion before him, EXCEPT marciano.

 

NO! I scored the DVD.... Ali was a bloated 220, while Rocco was a semi-bloated 200........... Marciano claimed he dropped roughly 50 pounds in training.......
:deal

SR.BILL:deal

 

Again, what difference does his weight make?

Did size give Klitschko a chin?

And as far as his defense, if Marciano had **** poor defense, how is it that in 39 fights he was never knocked down?

But the size thing.........it doesn't matter. Rocky would be just fine at 185-190.

The man can punch.

 

I have the DVD too, and i choose to use better sources than some "narrator" who doesnt know the information hes getting. According to Peter Marciano, Rocky was 220lb for the computer fight cutting down from 50-60lb.

Btw did you checkout the rare footage of Rocky throwing Rocks? he was as chizzled as they come. Imagine with modern ehancements if he lifted weights and got modern nutrtion...hed come into today at a ripped 205lb and be unbeatable.