Larry Homes .Vs. Rocky Marciano Both 49-0.

Riddick Bowe as a lightheavy?? When was that? I remember he was a superheavy (200+lbs) in the Olympics, '88...

 

These fighters weren't just rated one time or another, they were all rated within a YEAR of fighting joe louis, which means these guys were still players in the heavyweight division.

NO, actually Old Foget has monthly issues as well. Im glad that you do too.

Yes I knew Brion was rated. Louis SHUTOUT brion.

But you just said it yourself. Agramonte was rated top 10 within a year of fighting joe louis. When he fought Joe Louis, he was rated # 14 so he was obviousely still a player in the divsion, and he gave # 5 rated Bob Baker quite a scare for 7 rounds around the time he fought joe louis. Louis shutout and floored Agramonte. I have film of this fight, Agramonte was very fast flashy and had tremendous footwork, he was no journeyman.

Freddie Beshore fought for the Linear World Heavyweight title the SAME year Louis stopped him. So beshore was clearly a player in the division. Beshore went 14 rounds with Charles, yet only 4 with louis.

You skipped something...Jimmy Bivins was rated # 10 Annuelly by Ring Magazine in 1952 rankings, so Louis beat Bivins and Bivins went on to become a top 10 contender AFTER louis easily beat him. Bivins was still very much a player in the division in 1951 and was very near the top 10 when louis beat him. Bivins was no journeyman, he is in the hall of fame.

Not only was he rated, but he was the heavyweight champion of the world recognized by BBC, and Louis did something that only one fighter did in the past 10 years...knock savold out. Marciano couldnt take savold off his feet, yet louis knocked him out with 1 punch!




Finally, before you write off Andy Walker, when Louis fought Andy, Andy was the Californian Heavyweight Champion, which is no easy task. Walker had drew with a prime layne(most thought walker won) and beat an A rated black heavyweight Frank Buford for the title. Walker going into the Louis bout was considered very capable.....Only after he took a horrific beating from Louis did Walker suddenly lose 10 in a row...

 

Amateur Highlights of Riddick Bowe

• Trained at the Bed-Stuy BA
• Amateur Record: 104-18
• 1983 United States Junior Championships, lost to Adolpho Washington by 2nd round TKO in middleweight competition
• 1985 New York Golden Gloves Light Heavyweight Champion (Novice Division)
• 1985 Light Heavyweight Champion of Junior World Championships in Bucharest, Romania. Defeated Peter Hart of Hungary in the final
• 1986 New York Golden Gloves Light Heavyweight Champion (Open Division)
• 1987 New York Golden Gloves Super Heavyweight Champion (Open Division)
• 1987 Heavyweight Bronze Medalist at the Pan-American Games in Indianapolis. Lost to Jorge Luis Gonzalez on points
• 1988 New York Golden Gloves Super Heavyweight Champion (Open Division)
• 1988 Super Heavyweight Silver Medalist at the 1988 Seoul Olympic Games. Results:
  • Defeated Biko Botowamungu (Zaire, Congo) KO 2
  • Defeated Peter Hrivnak (Czechoslovakia) TKO 1
  • Defeated Alex Miroshnichenko (Soviet Union) on points
  • Lost to Lennox Lewis (Canada) TKO by 2

 

The Brion fight was a type of fight that show Louis's boxing skills. Brion could not do anything once Louis got that jab going.

It was a boring fight, because of the one sided of it, BUT it did show Louis could box, and not relie on bombing people out. I have the fight complete.

 

Brion was 6'2 1/2 195lb and very durable too. Trained by Charlie Goldman.

 

We have different opinions on this, if your not rated in the Top 10, I can not say there contenders or players. You have to rate them where they were when they fought Louis, not where they were 6 months ago or 6 months from now.

I respect him as well, BUT I don't think he has as much as I do, BUT I could be wrong. We have wrote each other several times and I sent him several STATS on who was rated when and where.

I never said he was. All I am saying is that he wasn't a top 10 contender when he fought Louis. Again, you have to rate them where they were when they fought Louis, not where they were 6 months ago or 6 months from now.

Beshore was 3-6 in his last 9 bouts before he fought Louis, that should tell you something.

I met, talked and even introduced Jimmy Bivins back in 1999. I agree, he was an oldtime great and a true Hall of Famer. BUT

Bivins was not rated when he fought Louis on August 15, 1951. In the February 1952 Issue, which was the Annual Ratings of Boxers, he was rated #14 of the 2nd group, which would be #16 overall. He was rated #10 in the December 1951 Issue when Lee Savold’s continued inactivity eliminated him from the ranking ten and Jimmy Bivins took his place, BUT again that was after he fought Louis. The next month, Bivins was out of the Top 10 again.

Yes agreed 100%, like you said, Louis knocked him cold and Marciano couldn't take him off his feet. So your telling us that an Old Joe Louis had a much better punch then a prime Marciano. I don't agree with that BUT again, you are entitled to your opinion.

Andy Walker, who was 17-8-7 when he was stopped by Louis in the 10th round and finished his career with a record of 17-20-7 (with 8 KO's) and was knocked out 10 times. Is that the Andy Walker you talking about?

Frank Buford finished his career with a record of 22-31-7 (with 2 Big KO's) and was knocked out 15 times. I guess that was a pretty good match between him and Walker.

 

golden gloves in N.Y. then he moved up to heavy

 

Thanks for saving me the time to find it

 

Hey Chris, I miss the old picture, very serious

 

Ok I understand your opinion now and I respect it. I enjoy talking boxing with you btw

Yes however if these guys were all rated within a one year span of fighting louis, this means they clearly were still in the mix.

Yes not impressive, but again Beshore just recently fought 14 hard rounds for the Linear World heavyweight title vs Ezzard Charles.

I think your again not looking ahead enough. In the 1953 Ring Magazine annuel rankings Jimmy Bivins actually cracked the top 10 at # 10. So that means Bivins went on to become a top 10 contender two years AFTER louis beat him, which means bivins was still very capable when louis beat him

No not at all. Im just praising Louis's dominant performance, thats all.

Once again, re-read what I wrote. Andy Walker was the California heavyweight champion when Louis knocked him out. California heavyweight division was stacked in the 1950s so Walker earning that title means he was no joke. I might add, Walker fought a undefeated prime rex layne and most ringsiders thought walker deserved the decision. Walker did manage to FINISH his career with a losing record, but notice how all 10 losses in a row he suffered AFTER the horrible beating by Louis. So its safe to say that Joe Louis ruined Walker, but Walker was capable going in.

Frank Buford beat clarence henry who was rated in the top 5 3 years in a row. You dont beat clarence henry if your not any good. Buford in one of the ring magazine issues was listed as a Class A fighter.

 

Always a Pleasure..... I think we both came to an agreement here. Louis beat two men during his comeback that were rated in the top 10 when the bout took place.... Cesar Brion in the 2nd fight and Lee Savold.

 

I think so too, however if the two were close to their prime Larry UD all the way.

 

as far as fighting styles nick wells and mike tyson are very similar. they both wanted to kill their opponent quick and early . Unfortunatly for wells his stamina did not allow for this in the pro ranks. he was oxygen deprived after four to five rounds and this was a downfall . and by the way he was 6' not 5 '10 ".

 

Bummy;

I'm an old guy and can remember that amatuer pedigree from back then as well. Very difficult to explain the amatuer boxing popularity to anyone since it pretty much dropped off > that 76 program.

But I can recall those amatuer heavies and you had some very dangerous guys in there---Stevenson of course. Then Wells and Vysotsky. Wow.

Plus you had ronnie Lyle who had a ko over Bobisk as an amatuer but he turned pro instead of staying in the olympics for 72. Can you imagine if that guy would've been 22 or so and could've been developed as opposed to being thrust into his career? Man, he was fighting tough hombres in his 3rd year that most guys wouldn't ever fight.

And lots of folks think Bobick is or was highly overrated but he was a good amatuer. It's just that Stevenson was so terrific in that 72-78 timeframe. I'm sure if Holmes didn't lose via dq to Bobick he'd have been starched by that big right hand just liuke Duane. In a way, losing by dq was the better route than a high profile loss like Bobick and later Tate had tio the guy.

Man, the amatuer scene for heavies has been dismal compared to that pedigree, huh? who's the best guy the last decade---Clay-Bey? Yikes.