Marciano vs. Norton

NOW! Speaking of Ol' Rocco defending against all these # 1 rated heavies by Ring Magazine.... Okay, fine, I can see that accomplishment...... We still must consider the times / era and who the opponents / victims were and their overall situation at the time of their title shots........

I am not gonna go into great detail about Rocco's POST Joe Louis fights of 1951.... We ALL know who they were here on this thread..... BUT! I will say that a HANDFUL of heavies from several KEY era's could've beaten / handled "Walcott at age 38 or an aging Charles and Moore." As for "LaStarza" and "Cockell," they were good fighters but nothing really special....... Okay, yes, agreed, Marciano's record does sparkle, but I really do NOT believe his competition came from a really tough / great era in boxing.......

HOWEVER! Marciano's competition in title fights clearly EXCEEDS all the hype surrounding Jack Dempsey's reign from the 1920s..... No **** there.........

Hell, while I think Jack Johnson was far superior of a talented boxer / fighter than Marciano, I never was too sold on Johnson's title challengers either....... I think Johnson had some of his toughest fights coming up the ladder.......

Last but not least, the great Joe Louis defended his title 25 times...... AGAIN! 18 or 19 of them victims were bums and stiffs who were out-gunned and totally out-classed...... It's ironic that Joe Walcott was Louis' greatest foe in the ring, and that fight / fights didn't occur until the tail end of Louis' reign....

LASTLY, without a doubt, Muhammad Ali fought the greatest group of bad-ass dudes the boxing world has ever seen...... With Evander Holyfield riding up Ali's ass in that area........ Holy's comp was wicked........... Peace......

MR.BILL

 

Wladimir Klitschko in the top ten?

Please....

Show me some video evidence of Klitschko bending at the waist. I believe that you have to be able to bend at the waist before even being considered for the top 10.

Wladimir Klitschko is a limited fighter.

He fights like a tall man, straight up and down, never ducks, and seems to be incapable of bending at the waist, unable to throw a right uppercut.

Klitschko looked as helpless as a puppy against Ibriganov, a man that had skill, but lacked the courage or fortitude to commit to his offense and by looking at him, lacked the stamina and the athletic ability to a carry through with anything meaninful except for a solitary punch.

Klitschko is in undeniably excellent shape and that plus his own reluctance to engage an opponent when his fundamental offensive weapon fails, allowed him to lean back and away and avoid everything that Ibriganov didn't throw.

If you put a guy like Louis, Tyson, or Marciano in Irbriganov's place, Klitscko's limited offensive ability would cause him to miss shot after shot as punches sailed over his opponents head, and he was countered until retailating by using his height as his defense until his nerves and legs let him down and he finds himself trapped in a corner or against the ropes with no place to go, and punches rain down upon him, and a loud crash is heard by the audience.

Klitschko is not a top 10 guy. It's just the level of opposition does not know how to fight.

 

Mr. Bill...

I'm still waiting on your top 10.

 

And you got the audacity to call his opponents stiffs when the majority of guys today are complete stiffs......literaly, and comparitively speaking.

 

bill, are u saying holyfield could beat ali?

 

Axe,

You, like several others, have Wlad Klit all ass backwards...... Wlad Klit is very skilled and fluid..... I will say his confidence and chin is indeed "Iffy" at times or in the past, but eversince he's KO'd Chris Byrd for the IBF title in '06, the guy has been on a roll and beaten everybody put forth in front of him.... The hell more can you ask for??

NOW! I like Vitali Klitschko..... That is a dangerous MO FO who can cause severe damage....... Vitali is NOT as mobile or fluid like his brother Wlad, but Vitali Klit is the better man because of his strength, power & durability.....

If Wlad Klit had the chin and resistance of his older brother, Wlad Klit would be wicked... Right here in 2009, the only thing that hinders Wlad Klit is his chin / stamina...... Though, Manny Steward has seemingly got Wlad Klit to work on his stamina; it hasn't been a factor as of late..... The Chin? Well, nothing you can do there except cover it up.....

Wlad Klit will KO this hype job David Haye in June....... Peace.........

MR.BILL

 

NO! I'm saying Holy's competition was incredible..... Close to Ali's comp....... I think Ali and Holy fought the greatest list of dudes who could actually kill a MO FO in the ring....... That's all I meant there.......
:rasta

MR.BILL

 

See, I don't even agree with you about your thoughts regarding each individual brother.

I think Vitali is an example of a big man with skill. I've seen Vitali bend at the waist multiple times, and while he's not an excellent athlete, he is very tough, but like his brother is still prone to making the same mistakes as Wladimir.

Vitali does posses a decent left hand, which works very well against his straight up and down opposition who shows little inclination to get in shape or move thier head, as they come straight in with their hands up, hoping to beat their opponent with brute force.

However he lacks speed, and still appears a bit stiff, but unlike his brother Wladimir, showed that he actually has the skill level to compete with similiar opponents with athleticism.

Wladimir has gotten himself in better shape no doubt, but he seems incapable at dealing with real pressure where his opponent is either battering him or making him miss, and when his opponent has the roughly the same physical stature, but just as much or greater speed, and moreso, the willingness to commit to their offensive attack, Wladimir shows his limited skill and speculatively his lack of nerves as he goes into a shell until his body gives up.

Wladimir is skilled for a big man, key word big man, but like all big men who share his physical characteristics and the way he acheived them, also have the downfall of being big men, especially when their opponent has the skill to make them miss and counter with hard punches.

And speaking of Wladimir, did his size give him a chin?

 

And by the way, God willing and if Haye deserves it, his nerves won't let him down, and Klitschko's punches will miss and Haye will make him look helpless and desperate before he knocks him out.

And I cannot predict the future, but Haye has the style to give Wladimir a nightmare and I think he's going to knock Klitschko out, much to your and many people's astonishment.

 

I already posted it earlier on the thread..... People balked..... What else is new?
:huh:shock::twisted:

MR.BILLatsch

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Johnson
4. Louis
5. Foreman / Lewis (Tie)
6. Vitali Klit
7. Holy
8. Tyson
9. Frazier
10. Liston / Bowe / Marciano (Take a Pick):huh

NOTE:

I am NOT happy with Joe Frazier above Liston or Bowe.... Why? Cause Peak-4-peak, I think Liston and Bowe could hammer Frazier.... However, Joe Frazier is very popular and the fans love him....

"Frazier-Marciano" would've been a war...... Placing these two at around # 10 seems right / fair to me..........:yep

Let the arrows fly.....:twisted:

MR.BILL:bbb:admin

 

I'm sorry, I meant your 10 fighters that you believe can beat Marciano.

 

Axe,

Where you from and how old are you? This will allow me to get a feel of where your angle is at....

I trust you are not 16 and living in England.?.?

MR.BILL

 

we are all entitled to our own opinions i guess. refering to the list

 

That list IS the guys who could've beaten Marciano...... BUT! I could also add several key players from the post 1960s to the present that could've either beaten Marciano or givin him lotsa' hell.......

WBA chumps or not, "Weaver, Dokes, Coetzee, Page, Tubbs & Spoon" were all capable of doin' harm to Marciano upon winning their WBA title fights.......... Same goes for other chumps like "Thomas, Berbick, Douglas & Tucker." Not that these guys could or would beat Marciano, but they'd give him a good tussle if they were prepared like the day they won their paper belts in the ring....... Nothing real solid there.......:-(
:huh:admin

MR.BILL:bbb

 

You need to know my race too? And where I live?

I get my angle from watching film and attempting to replicate the things that I see as being helpful when I can in training and against another opponent.

I've come to the conclusion that these methods employed by some of the great boxers of the past work today, and if you combine certain factors within each skill set such as power, speed, etc, depending on the style, you can make an incredibly lethal boxer that when trained well is almost impossible to beat.

Look, I'm sorry for attacking you personally. That was childish and disrespectful, and while honestly I don't like spreading my knowledge with others because of my lack of trust, I feel like I can contribute certain aspects to help people understand facets of the game and why people during that time period truly believed the fighters to be the best.

Watching Ray Robinson and Joe Louis, and many others on film, to me when I observe certain intricities of their game, helps me to realize what these people were seeing.

And it's not just me. I know of another guy that watches what I tell him and while he's rarely in the condition he should be, his athletic ability and tallent are some of the best I've ever seen.

His combination of speed, power, and agility is like something in a video game. But he needs to work on getting his rhythmm and his timing down. And he definitely needs to commit to more cardio.

Anyway......that's just bullshittin......

I gotta go....