I think we finally beat this topic into the ground like a dead horse....atsch:blood:admin SR.BILLARDO:bbb
Well thsos bigs heavyweights should lost to old Archie Moore didnt they?? I mean he was still whipping the big boys when he fought Ali. I guess the 1960's were a weaker breed of men than the 50's.
He wont ko Ali or Holmes with one punch. He would beat Ali and Holmes by OUTSWARMING them. Marciano ant no Shavers that thowns one good punch and hope for the best. Rocky would be on top of em like Pac was on Hatton.
I agree with most if not all of what your saying. I agree with the 1st part (He wont ko Ali or Holmes with one punch) BUT disagree with the 2nd (He would beat Ali and Holmes by OUTSWARMING them). It would be very hard for him to OUTSWARM either Ali or Holmes. They would outweigh him by 30 to 40 pounds, will have 4 to 5 inches in height and more then a foot in reach, PLUS both of them had excellent chins and stamina. PLUS, Rocky never liked fighting on the inside, in fact several of his sparring partners stated that and he also stated that several times on his TV show "Main Event." He said tat he needed room for his powerful punches.
Fight film proves otherwise, he didnt used room for Charles and Moore. And if Ali can lose to Frazier, and have troubles with Chuvalo, who gave Ali a bad body beating, I think Rocky could repeat the effect of this guys. Marciano didnt need room to lay waste to Rex Layne either thinking about it.
The '52 to '55 Marciano would be out-boxed and butchered by a 1960 to 1963 version of Sonny Liston in a time machine..... No doubt in my mind..... And guys like Ali and Holmes are a cut above a prime Liston in the ring........ Ali & Holmes may have a few rough rds with Ol' Rocco, but they'd get the job done and find a way to win the fight..... Again, in a 12 rounder, Marciano loses a decision to Ali & Holmes... In a 15 rounder, I see Marciano getting TKO'd late by way of cuts and blood.... I've stated it time and time again, Rocco Marciano would do very well with all the heavyweight champs from 1887 to 1960..... But I do see Jack Johnson and Joe Louis being the ultimate cream of the crop during that time frame..... Post 1960, "Liston, Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Holy, Bowe, Lewis & Vitali Klit" park Marciano like a Cadillac in a time machine....... Peace...... MR.BILL
Then your saying that Rocky wasn't telling the truth, because he stated this many times and several of his sparring partners stated the same as well, so I think I have to believe them. If you look at the films, which he himself went over on his TV show, you will see that he threw his haymakers from long range. He might have been able to push around 180 to 190 pounders, BUT Ali and Holmes were not 180 to 190 pounders.
I do want to say that if the bigger men of the future are used to put dpwm the record of one fighter, they same standard should be applied to other fighters. Ali went 56-5 in 61 fights. Frankly, I think Lennox Lewis and Vitali Klitschko both do considerably better against those 61 opponents. Norton held his own against Ali in three fights and 39 rounds. No way I see him doing that against Lewis or Klitschko. I can't imagine either Vitali or Lennor ever losing to Leon Spinks. Nor going to a close decision with puffed up lightheavy Doug Jones. I don't see Jimmy Young giving either of them much trouble either. You might argue that some big puncher like Liston or Foreman or Shavers gets lucky against Lennox, but frankly, I think it is a long shot. Maybe the 1980 Holmes can handle aged versions of either, although I doubt it, but one thing I think is for certain. He wouldn't win every round against them like he did against Ali.
Yes, he even said many times that Harry Kid Matthews was his hardest fight, and again fight film shows Marciano blow him out in 2 rounds. Again he added Walcott, Charles and Moore to the list.
I agree with you on most BUT I feel Ali and Holmes would not have that much trouble with Rocky. They would be too BIG (reach, height, weight), too FAST, both had a GREAT left jabs and 2 of the best chins in Heavyweight history.
Just like somebody mentioned before.... Size doesn't always matter.... BUT! It does when talking about "Ali and Holmes." Why? Because they are ALL-TIME greats of the ring who kicked ass and took names later in their primes....... A smaller dude in shape who has the mentality of a real fighter can and will beat up and push back a ***** like a "Baby Huey." Hulks like "Carnera and Valuev" are typical Baby Huey type fighters who have got little to no clue how to be a bad ass and apply themselves in a firm manner in the ring...... Other dudes like "Jess Willard and Luis Firpo" were hulks who could punch, but really had no skill on how to deliver a wicked series of punches in a proper manner...... Again, more "Baby Huey" type of fighters........ SO! You take dudes like "Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Holy , Bowe & Vitali Klit" who are NOT ***** type fighters who are clueless, and put them skilled monsters with size and power up against a smaller fighter like Marciano with skill and power, I'm gonna go with the bigger and more advanced tank in the battle field...... Peace... MR.BILL
And I think Lewis and Vitali handle Holmes and Ali. Holmes at 6' 3" and 209 (for Ali) is a small man compared to the other two. As a matter of fact, he is smaller compared to them than Marciano is to him. I also think Wlad would take Holmes who didn't have the really big punch to keep Wlad honest and who was also vulnerable to an overhand right.
On his TV show, he said to Jersey Joe Walcott directly that Jersey Joe was his toughest opponent. I think many of these "you were my toughest opponent" comments are just someone being gracious at a banquet or testimonial.