Marciano vs. Norton

I never said it didn't, all I am saying is that Ali with his boxing skills, chin, speed etc., would be very hard to beat for anyone. Size does matter, that's why I have a lot of big heavyweights beating Rocky. Rocky had a GREAT punch, BUT to land one against someone that weighs around 180 to 190 pounds, compared to the BIG heavyweights like Lewis and Klitschko, is a hold new ball game.

 

I agree with a lot of what your saying BUT if Ali could take punches from Foreman, Frazier, Liston, Lyle, Mac Foster, among others, he could take them from Rocky as well. Remember, Ali most likely had the Greatest chin or one of the Greatest chins in boxing history and Rocky only stopped 1 fighter that weighed over 200 pounds and was over 6 feet tall, that was rated in the top 10 when they fought, and that was against an aging Joe Louis.

 

Off Topic... But I just reviewed "Louis-Simon 2" from '42.... Abe Simon was tuff and rugged, but he lacked skills.... Simon was in the mold of a Tex Cobb or George Chuvalo; not a bad fighter, but lacking certain much needed skills and reflexes........Louis butchered Simon in the '42 rematch......

MR.BIL

 

Yes, lets look at the films. Did Marciano deliver a short punch KO, or were they mostly from a distance? The Ko's over Walcott, Layne, Louis, and others were all over hand rights or wind up shots from a distance, not short punches delivered from the inside.

Regarding what Marciano said, I have heard him comment on his own fights many times. Rocky is both insightful, honest, and modest. And Rocky knew boxing. I would not doubt his words in print.

Its a pity a plane crash ended his life, because I believe Marciano could have made an excellent commentator.

 

I hated that heavy New England accent he had....... Kinda' like the Kennedy's....... Them accents drive me nuts.........
atsch

MR.BILL

 

He was a commentator and I liked him BUT for some reason they didn't use him very much. On the "Main Events" TV, which he hosted, was excellent.

 

Ali had trouble with good jabbers at all stages of his career when he was matched vs a good jabber with the lone exception being Liston. Jones, Norton, Young, Lyle, and Holmes are examples of fighters who jab scored on the outside vs Ali.

Some shorter opponents did land on Ali a bit from the outside. Mildenberger had some success vs a prime Ali on the outside, and he was maybe 6' 195 pounds.

The more I watch Ali, the more I think he's over rated in a boxing skill sense, and under rated in toughness/ mental fortitude.

But back to Marciano and Norton. This is a very intersting thread. I'm learning here. Keep the good posts comming.

 

See, that's one of the things I liked about him.

 

I agree 100%. Why didn't they use Rocky more? Maybe it was a limited network tv type of thing. In those days there were only a few TV channels. Perhaps Don Dunphy ( spelling ) had all the big fights?

 

I might be misinterpreting this slightly, but

1. If you mean Marciano would have a lot more difficulty getting a big punch over against Lewis and Klitschko versus a 190 lber. I agree.

2. If you mean the big men can take a punch better, I don't know about that. The fact is that Dempsey, Louis, and Marciano never ran into anyone who was too big to be knocked out and indeed all did better against the big men of their eras than their smaller opponents. Louis and Dempsey slaughtered 245 to 260 lb men. Marciano didn't beat a giant of any quality, but he did knock out all five opponents he fought over 210 lbs, three over 220. I think if there had been a half-way decent 250 lber around like Simon he would probably have stopped him.

 

The Walcott ko was a short 6 inch punch.
It was the uppercut that did Louis in, the over head right when Joe was on the ropes was there to finish the job.
Layne was a long ko punch. But what about the little room he needed for Charles or Moore?

 

Maybe, BUT Ted Lowry went the distance twice with Rocky, and he a small heavyweight. I talked to Ted several times over the last several years and he told me that he was a last minute sub., in the their 2nd match. Even Cockell took him deep.

Some of the Greatest punchers in history, couldn't go up in weight and stop the bigger boys, such was the case with Bob Foster. I just think it would be much harder to stop a great big man then a great little man.

 

Accents can be the life and death of you as an announcer.......:yep

Heavy New England and Deep Southern accents do NOT go over well on national TV.... Truth to that, as well.........

MR.BILL:deal

 

What ruler are you using?

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Height and reach on the opponent does affect a boxer with speed and a snappy jab effectiveness........... Ray Leonard was a demon in shoes when he was the taller or same size man.... But when Ray fought "Hearns & Lalonde," his defense and jab seemed somewhat neutralized and offset........ Yes, he still got the job done, but he struggled.....

I can picture Ali and Holmes having BIG problems with dudes like "Lewis & Klit."

MR.BILL