Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

Holmes had an unbelievably long jab and right hand to boot, far rangier then Schmeling I'm guessing. Probably faster and snappier too...

 

I lean toward Holmes in this one. If Conn could outbox Joe for 12 rounds and hurt him once or twice then a much bigger and harder hitting Holmes could do the same and maybe even stop Joe as well. Joe's best chance would be to land his right and finish Holmes once he's hurt. Something that many of Larry's opponents couldn't do once they had Larry in trouble (Shavers and Snipes come to mind). If Joe hurts Larry bad he won't let him off the hook. The big question is of course could Joe get Larry in such a position. It's certainly possible but I think Holmes could use his size and speed well enough to avoid such a scenario. If Larry gets careless or chooses to slug it out with Joe if he gets stung then Louis wins. If he doesn't and chooses to move and box then I see Larry by decision or TKO.

 

After reading the knowledgble replies,for both sides,Louis' jab isn't mentioned much,he put a lot into it.Louis detractors mention Schmeling Galento etc,while I think of Norton ,Spinks,Snipes etc.Think Joe had a better two fisted attack and wins this one.

 

If Renaldo Snipes could put Holmes down and he was not a big puncher or finisher...I shudder to think what THE BROWN BOMBER WOULD DO, and once Holmes went down it would be hard to survive the killer finish of JLB

 

Bum,

I have figured you out.... You must be 120 yrs old............. Snipes was green but ripped and willing at 215 pounds in 1981........ He was motivated in his title shot..... Yes, he lacked polish, but he had bad intentions and power in that right hand of his........... He caught Holmes daydreaming..... Holmes paid the Piper for it, as well... The Renaldo Snipes of 1981 was primed and hungry..... Snipes had ordinary skills and technique, but he could punch............. Much like Earnie Shavers, if Snipes caught you upside the head with a solid right; you had a problem... Cheers..

MR.BILL

 

Not true. Snipes is a lot like Buster Douglas--his fame is from knocking down 1 guy. And both didn't knockdown any other top 10 heavies. As for ko's, at least Douglas does have 1 ko on his dossier of top fighters and Snipes doesn't even have 1.

 

When Shavers landed a thunderbolt of a right hand that literally threw Holmes flat on his back, Holmes got up, and moved like Muhammad Ali in his prime for the rest of the match. When Snipes landed his hard right hand, Holmes showed remarkable recovery skills. Holmes had excellent survival skills. Very few fighters floored Holmes with a big right hands in 46 or so prime fights. I think its a bit of a reach to say its going to happen again in every fantasy match up.

I prefer to look at patterns on how the fighter matches up. In this case, Louis struggled with good boxers every time he meet them outside of an early ko, and was floored more often...sometimes by lesser skilled men. Holmes was a good enough boxer to pitch a near shut out vs a prime Berbick, and had an impressive knock out streak when he was champion too.

 

Yeah, well, it's kind of hard to win rounds during the rematch if you knock the opponent out in the first round isn't it?

What about Holmes, though? He lost plenty of rounds to " solid " boxers in Witherspoon, Williams, and and aging Norton. He was past his best for the Williams bout, but so was Louis against Walcott, whom you included.

I do think Holmes is more likely to win the decision than Louis, but Louis could even up the cards by scoring a knockdown, or multiple. Or simply win by stoppage. I think this matchup is pretty even.

 

The whole "rounds won" thing is flawed. Louis flattened him twice, early.

 

Indeed, which is why I put in a disclaimer in this thread that said Louis struggled vs boxers unless his power ended the match early.

Well, Holmes never needed a come from behind KO or a gift decision to win in his prime. Witherpsoon was far better and more imposing than the likes of Conn, Pastor, Godoy, and Farr. Each of the four men took several rounds vs a prime or near prime Joe Louis. Timmy also had a top level chin, and good defense in addition to hitting much harder than Conn, Pastor, Godoy, or Farr.

Regarding the first Schmeling fight, Schmeling easily out boxed and made Louis look real bad. Louis coming into the Schmeling fight was red hot with a career best performance win over Max Baer. Schemling was thought to be past his best when he first meet Louis. I'm sorry, but Louis does not impress on film with with defense, footwork, or adaptability in the ring, which is why he often struggled with good boxers.

If you want to compare and contrast how Louis and Holmes did as an older champion, Louis was badly smacked around and did not win more than three rounds vs Ezzard Charles, while Holmes was pretty much even with Mike Spinks, and beat Norton one of Norton's best performances. There is not doubt that Holmes was a better past his prime fighter in comparison to Joe Louis.

We agree that Holmes is more likely to win a decision. In terms of knockdowns, Holmes might be the one more likely to score them, as Louis was down more often vs some lesser puncher, and less than skilled fighters.

 

There's quite a lot I agree with here. Louis' punching was out of this world, but this was by far the greatest asset in his arsenal I would say. Particulary, his defence weren't that good. Fighters who could keep out of range and keep him from getting set to punch could get to him without too much problem. Holmes movement and right crosses behind one of the best jabs in boxing would be a mountain to climb for Louis because of this.

But those picking Louis also have a point. Holmes was hurt by far less formidable punchers and finishers, but this is basically the chance I'm giving Louis. It's by no means insignificant, though.

 

I'll take Holmes by decision. I think his jab would control the fight. Larry got suckered by a couple right hands from guys he didn't respect nearly as much as he would Louis. He always got up too. He had tremendous recuperative powers. I think Holmes exposes Louis' flaws moreso than the other way around. It's a styles fight for me. I'd pick a prime mid 60's Ali to decisively decision Louis and a prime Holmes is as close as anybody has ever come to that.

 

Disagree. First off, I gave Louis 5 of the 15 rounds vs Charles, and Louis was coming off a 2 year layoff when he fought Charles. Holmes was not coming off a layoff when he fought Spinks, bad comparison.


A Past his prime Louis knockout win over a Prime Jersey Joe Walcott is by far better than any win Larry Holmes ever recorded past 33 years of age

Also Louis put up a far better fight vs Rocky Marciano than Larry Holmes did against Tyson. Louis puffed up marcianos face and the fight was even on the cards going into round 6. Holmes got his **** tossed by Tyson.

 

Watch Louis of 1930s, he had quite nifty footwork. The way he slid in and out of range vs Max Baer and others was a beatiful site to see. 2ndly, Louis did not have a low gaurd. he kept his hands high by his chin always keeping his right hand by his left cheek ready to Parry.


I just can't imagine what Joe would do to larry when larry tries to brawl his way out of trouble while hurt. Actually I can imagine... GOODNIGHT LARRY!!!

 

Wow just watched Mike Weaver vs Larry Holmes. Weaver was a 19-8 at the time. Weaver hit Larry with RIGHT HAND AFTER RIGHT HAND all night long. If that were joe louis, larry would have been out of there by the 5th round. Earnie Shavers stated in his book that after watching Weaver-Holmes he decided to challenge him to a rematch because he knew he could tag him with the right hand.