Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

When talking about the flaws in Holmes' record I think ChrisP and Suzie Q hit the nail on the head. If you could say that Louis' record had any flaws it's more down to the situation at the time, that blacks had a very hard time getting good management and good matches etc, and thus getting to the position where they could challenge for the title. This had a pretty big impact on the competitiveness of the division IMO.

Let me state this once for all: the HW division between ca 1978-1985 exceeds the one between ca 1935-1942 by a pretty fair margin IMO. Being honest to oneself I think most here would agree that the best contenders of the early 1980's (Cooney, Dokes, Page, Thomas, Weaver, Coetzee, Witherspoon and Tubbs) would, at their best, have cleaned house with most of the best contenders of the late 1930's. But of course, Holmes never proved himself against many of the best of his era.


The 80's contenders often lacked in focus and longevity, though.

 

Holmes' pro record looks fine to me......... His comp was good...... The man gets a solid "A" PLUS in ring experience........ Cheers....

MR.BILL

 

I dont think that the 80s was in any way lacking in talent as an era.

Verry much like Louis's era in many ways.

The talent was there but it got misdirected.

 

The 80's could very well be one of the most talented HW eras. I also think this could have to do with Ali to a degree. He gave an incredible boost to the sport and I wouldn't be surprised if many became interested in boxing largely because of him.

 

Holmes record is one of the best but the fact that he didn't face any of Tubbs, Thomas, Dokes, Page and Cotezee and failed to give a couple of deserved rematches means that it doesn't compare to that of Ali and Louis. He can be placed anywhere from 3-7 based on the record IMO.

 

Why do you say Page was Dangerous and BLACK like he had a 3rd arm from being BLACK

 

Bum,

Greg Page was ranked # 1 in late 1983 by the WBC..... However, unlike Gerry Cooney, Page didn't have a huge fan following to put up good money to pour into the money buckets...... :-(

Larry Holmes was able to secure a 10 million dollar purse by fighting Gerry Cooney in 1982 because the money was pouring in from "White" America..... Honkies like myself were dropping dollar bills into that event..... Personally, I was backing Larry Holmes in 1982..... I am a Holmes nut-hugger........:yep

Bottom line: Money talks and bull**** walks....... Cooney had support from the fans; Page never did........... That's why Don King only offered Holmes 2.5 million dollars to fight Page........ The fans didn't really give a **** about Page in 1983.... Cooney's fans in 1982 were coming outta the woodwork...........:bbb

Like it or not Bum, but Page's black skin wasn't worth as much as Cooney's white skin was in the early 80s....:-(

Cooney being an Irishman from New York was much more profitable than a big kid from Kentucky named Greg Page.........:deal

MR.BILL:shock::yikes

 

I'd go with Louis via late stoppage.

 

Holmes would give Joe some trouble with lateral movement and that frequent jab, but Joe's body punching would have an effect sooner or later. Plus, Larry had a habit of dropping his left after tossing that jab, leaving him open for a right hand. You can't make mistakes like that against Joe Louis.

 

Joe louis did the same damn thing..... Dropping of the left after a jab.....

Holmes had a better beard than Louis...... My guess is, the right hand by Shavers in '79 would've floored and parked Louis for the full count.... How Holmes got up is anyone's guess....... My guess is a solid chin and durability...... Louis couldn't take what he could offer.......
:bbb:deal

MR.BILL:hey

 

Louis corrected this problem. Holmes never did. That is why in all his major fights he was constantly tatooed with Right Hands.

 

Really only against "Shavers & Snipes" was it ever a serious factor..... The right that Holmes ate from Tyson in round 4 went right through the guard of Holmes...

As for getting tagged by "Weaver & Spoon" in title fights, you are bound to get nailed sometimes by good fighters....

MR.BILL:hey

 

respectfully disagree. It was a serious factor against Mike Weaver and Tim Witherspoon too. Weaver must have hit holmes with 100 right hands that fight, and Witherspoon scored points and staggered holmes badly in the 9th round with a right hand. Bonecrusher also had holmes in trouble with a right hand. not to mention the first shot tyson nailed holmes with to put him down was a right hand.

Renaldo Snipes stopped no one of note during his career. He never even won an Alphabet soup belt. I watched him try but to no avail trying to put away cruiserweight Eddie Mustapha Muhammad. Snipes literally had holmes on the brink of defeat with one right hand, and holmes hit hit head on the ringpost trying to get up, he was lucky that fight was not stopped....if snipes actually had a clue how to finish a man, holmes would have not lasted the round. Louis would have taken him right out right there.

 

I never cared for Holmes' trainer Richie Giachetti....... Giachetti was another cheerleader who SHOUTED too much in the corner without ever saying anything helpful....... Giachetti was lucky to have obtained some success, but his abilities to truly train are questionable....

Plus, Larry Holmes claims he was drained by a bug going into that fight with Mike Weaver..... I think it was somewhat truthful..... Holmes may have been slightly ill and he did underestimate Weaver........

I may be the only guy on the planet who gives a well trained Weaver his props..... Weaver's pro record is deceiving....... Weaver's early team and management sucked pool stick.....

Mike Weaver used to live up the freeway from me in California... He was off the 57 in Diamond Bar... I lived in Fountain Valley near Huntington Beach, CA.... Diamnod Bar has nice homes, but its too goddamn stuffy and smogy up there..... My asthma can't take it..........

MR.BILLbbb:yikes

 

Thats the thing. Holmes fought fighter with 13, 10-2-2, 10-0, 15-0,16-0, 19-8,18-1 records, these guys were green or in Weavers case a trial horse that was stopped a few times. When Weaver saw how good he was doing vs Holmes he said "could you imagined if trained" Weaver took the fight game serious after Holmes because he wobbled Larry around the ring. Snipes was not a puncher nor a finisher...he did happen to land a hell of a haymaker on Larry but did not know what to do....Louis was the best of all at finishing...he was like a shark on a bloody chunk of flesh