Marciano vs. Norton

Mr. Bill, I like your posts. You're not afraid to put your opinions out there, you take a lot of **** and I haven't seen you attack anybody. Very thicked skinned which is cool. BUT, Vitali Klitschko at #6 all time. Bill, pass me that crack pipe ;-)
I'm not a Marciano nut hugger by any means. I lean toward the mid 60's Ali as the be all and end all for Heavyweights. Like you, I think highly of a prime Holmes. But some things about Marciano that are underrated are his craftiness in closing the gap and dare I say it, his defensive aillity. Now as far as Norton, did Norton ever win a really big fight? I mean a chapionship fight? Yeah he upset Ali but he had clear deficiencies against certain types of fighters. Fighters who could put power shots on his delicate chin. He could be beating Marciano, but at some point Marciano would catch him (and that's a worst case scenario, assuming Marciano just didn't administer a severe beatdown from the start). You've mentioned Norton's jab (which was good), but I think Marciano slips that jab more often than not. Marciano by mid-round KO.

 

I gave the film to several big time boxing judges and they all had Ali winning against Jones, most had 7-3 and some even had it 8-2.

Ali was dropped by Cooper BUT the time between rounds was not much more then 1 minute.

My good friends, Harold Lederman and Arthur Mercante both had Ali winning the 3rd bout with Norton.
referee: Arthur Mercante 8-6 | judge: Harold Lederman 8-7 | judge: Barney Smith 8-7

 

You are wrong there.

Marciano got some bad breaks early in his career.

As champion he never fought anybody ranked outside the top2 and only fought one oponent who was not the No1 contender at the time (Cockle).

How many champions through history have such a consistant record of fighting the top ranked challengers?

 

Hmmmmm.... I just don't know..... Yeah....... Hmmmmmmm..... I did a recent review of "Quarry-Frazier" of 1974 & "Quarry-Norton" of 1975.... In doing so, I noticed that J.Q. weighed 207 pounds for BOTH fights and looked exactly the same in BOTH fights........ At 207 pounds, Quarry had some small love handles off his hips and lower back...... STILL! He looked in pretty good shape........ This utter horse**** about being totally outta shape wasn't until around 1977 when he came back to fight Lorenzo Zanon..... I'm sure Quarry sucked down a few beers and perhaps smoked a little weed in the early 1970s, but his fondness for partying really wasn't a huge factor until he barely beat Zanon in a sloppy effort.......
bbb:hey

MR.BILL:bbb

P.S.

I never said Quarry could beat Marciano..... I just said Quarry could extend and test Ol' Rocco in a fierce fight in a time machine....:thumbsup

 

Fellas,

When I place Vitali Klit at # 6 on my all-time list it is not in context to his vast accomplishments....... I say that because I feel Vitali Klit has / had the real potential within himself to KO or KILL somebody at any givin time in the ring..... He is HUGE and GOOD!! Vitali Klit is NOT a typical "Baby Huey" type lummox..... Therefore, I see him as a serious threat in a time machine against anybody from 1887 to 2009.........

I've never seen Vitali Klit down or seriously rocked in a fight..... His worst injuries have been a torn rotor cuff in 2000 & a wicked cut / cuts in 2003 against Lenny Lewis.... That's it...... He has been tagged by dudes like "Lewis & Corrie Sanders." I see the determination, focus, training, power & scaryness in Vitali Klit that I fail to see in a lot of other dudes past or present........

The only real downside I see with Vitali Klit is that he didn't really burst onto the scene and take the boxing world by a storm until he was 30 goddamn yrs old....... Now, at age 37, his clock is ticking downward..... Still, the man is for real.......
thumbsup:bbb:hey:good

MR.BILL

 

I just reviewd "Louis-Simon 2" from '42..... Abe Simon was a huge dude at 255 pounds.... BUT! His skills sucked, as did his speed......... Simon was a classic example of Louis kayoing a bartender........ I like the fight, and I was happy for Louis, but kayoing the easy to hit Simon was no biggie....... Cheers.....

MR.BILL

 

Marciano UD

 

I get where you're coming from Mr. Bill, but I think Heavyweight is the one division where you have to make allowances. We can compare Ray Robinson vs Ray Leonard at 147 and feel fairly comfortable that it's a fair comparison. I agree that Marciano vs Vitali is like a Mutt and Jeff type deal. But again, with Heavyweights, because of the vast disparity in size I think you have to go more on accomplishments and leave the time machine in the garage. I don't think you can say Vitali is the 6th greatest Heavy ever. Could he beat Marciano? It's possible Marciano would get DQ'd from hitting Vitali in the nuts and knee caps. To each his own, but I think you have to be more lenient when comparing a 185 lb man to a 250 lb man.

 

I hear that.... I do..... However, I can easily see Marciano shitting his pants if he were in that ring facing either "Lewis or Klit" in 2003 on HBO..... Of course we are talking about a 29 or 30 year old Marciano from 1952 or '53.....:hey

The punches that Lewis and Klit threw and landed on each other would park lesser men with less size and strength.... I cannot see Marciano handling that type of action......:-(

MR.BILL:deal

 

Marciano fear no man, Win or lose, he would not be shitting his pants.

 

Now you crossed the line Bill. A grizzly bear would not scare Rocky Marciano. Marciano would get in the ring with anybody, no matter who it was.

 

You get your weights wrong with Quarry. He weighed 197 for Frazier in 1974, ten pounds lighter than he did for Norton.

 

I'll check into that.....:huh Sometimes its hard to hear the goddamn ring announcer through the roar of the crowd.... And also them older fights don't always give you all the stats like today's HBO / Showtime cards do.... You know what I'm saying??:good

MR.BILL:hey

 

Okay... I just checked..... Ol' Jerry Boy was 197 1/4 pounds in '74 for Frazier.........

MR.BILL:bbb:deal