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FMJ and Sugar Ray Leonard are equals

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by BIG-DOMINIC, May 15, 2009.

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owell Active Member Full Member

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BIG-DOMINIC said: ↑

By Dominic Athwal:

It annoys me when certain people question FMJ's career yet seem are all too happy just to say "oh sugar ray would of beaten him easy..he's a real legend". True I say SRL is a true legend a quick glimpse at his career shows this but soo is FMJ.

SRL started his career at welter and won the belt against two time world champion Benitez in his 26th fight. He contiued his onslaught on the division but lost to Duran who was coming up in a classic battle in which Duran secured his own legacy as a great fighter. He beat Duran in the comeback and then went onto beat Hearns in a legendary contest, before having one more fight and then retiring. If he had stayed retired then he would still be classed as a legend beating Duran, Hearns, and Benitez with only one loss.

On the other hand fmj started his career at super featherweight and won the belt from Hernandez in his 19th fight. FMJ like SRL went onto defend against the very best in his division including Manfredy and Chavez. He had his Duran/Hearns moment when he met with fellow undefeated champion and top P4P'er Corrales, but the difference is Mayweather dismantled him. By dismantling him he failed to recieve the same type of credit as SRL because he wasn't involved in a war.He simply outclassed Corrales.He didn't have anyone that could match him at the weight he had no equal thus he dismantled very good fighters, thus leaving people asking for him to challenge himself.

He moved up and beat Castillio twice, although the first time was very close. However he chose to fight him again, a decision which showed guts and heart and went on to convincly beat Castillio. After cleaning up at lightweight he went up and beat a WBC strap but in truth fading legend Gatti.

Now back to Leonard after retiring he came back once but then retired again, before annoucing his comeback after years out agaisnt Hagler. This was perhaps his greatest achievment in beating Hagler but in truth Hagler was fading and many people believe he was out of love with the sport and still many think he actually wom the fight. Then he went on an fought a weak fighter in Lalonde before having fights with Hearns and Duran both which were nothing more than money fights as the fighters were clearly past thier best.

Floyd after winning the LWW belt showed his class by moving up yet again and beating Judah and Baldomir convincly. Before dominating in two superfights against Hatton and ODH.

Both have had glittering careers but SRL career shows that to be regarded as one of the undisputable legends you need two thing's in your career a setback and a great comeback. Leonard had both of those with his loss against Duran and his legendary comeback agaisnt Hagler....therefore in conclusion FLoyd is a victim of his own talent because there has been no one good enough to push him. For me he would have to lose to someone then make a comeback and beat him for people to class him in that untouchable category of "Ali", "SRR" and "SRL".

I'm glad he's made the comeback...he would now need to lose and then avenage that loss for people to realise his true talent.
Click to expand...

He didn't dominate ODLH...That's a fact!!@!

owell, May 15, 2009

#16

Manos de Piedra Active Member Full Member

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i ****en hate Leonard, but he was great, he performance against Wilfred benitez, is way better then Floyd whole career, and that was one of his smaller fights

Manos de Piedra, May 15, 2009

#17

o_money Boxing Junkie banned

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BIG-DOMINIC said: ↑

By Dominic Athwal:

It annoys me when certain people question FMJ's career yet seem are all too happy just to say "oh sugar ray would of beaten him easy..he's a real legend". True I say SRL is a true legend a quick glimpse at his career shows this but soo is FMJ.

SRL started his career at welter and won the belt against two time world champion Benitez in his 26th fight. He contiued his onslaught on the division but lost to Duran who was coming up in a classic battle in which Duran secured his own legacy as a great fighter. He beat Duran in the comeback and then went onto beat Hearns in a legendary contest, before having one more fight and then retiring. If he had stayed retired then he would still be classed as a legend beating Duran, Hearns, and Benitez with only one loss.

On the other hand fmj started his career at super featherweight and won the belt from Hernandez in his 19th fight. FMJ like SRL went onto defend against the very best in his division including Manfredy and Chavez. He had his Duran/Hearns moment when he met with fellow undefeated champion and top P4P'er Corrales, but the difference is Mayweather dismantled him. By dismantling him he failed to recieve the same type of credit as SRL because he wasn't involved in a war.He simply outclassed Corrales.He didn't have anyone that could match him at the weight he had no equal thus he dismantled very good fighters, thus leaving people asking for him to challenge himself.

He moved up and beat Castillio twice, although the first time was very close. However he chose to fight him again, a decision which showed guts and heart and went on to convincly beat Castillio. After cleaning up at lightweight he went up and beat a WBC strap but in truth fading legend Gatti.

Now back to Leonard after retiring he came back once but then retired again, before annoucing his comeback after years out agaisnt Hagler. This was perhaps his greatest achievment in beating Hagler but in truth Hagler was fading and many people believe he was out of love with the sport and still many think he actually wom the fight. Then he went on an fought a weak fighter in Lalonde before having fights with Hearns and Duran both which were nothing more than money fights as the fighters were clearly past thier best.

Floyd after winning the LWW belt showed his class by moving up yet again and beating Judah and Baldomir convincly. Before dominating in two superfights against Hatton and ODH.

Both have had glittering careers but SRL career shows that to be regarded as one of the undisputable legends you need two thing's in your career a setback and a great comeback. Leonard had both of those with his loss against Duran and his legendary comeback agaisnt Hagler....therefore in conclusion FLoyd is a victim of his own talent because there has been no one good enough to push him. For me he would have to lose to someone then make a comeback and beat him for people to class him in that untouchable category of "Ali", "SRR" and "SRL".

I'm glad he's made the comeback...he would now need to lose and then avenage that loss for people to realise his true talent.
Click to expand...

Please tell me you didn't compare Duran to Corrales (may he resp in peace).atsch

o_money, May 15, 2009

#18
blank Active Member Full Member

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Skill for skill Floyd might be every bit as good as Ray. The difference is Ray actually had the balls to prove his greatness, unlike Floyd who feels telling people he's better than certain fighters carries as much merit as actually beating them.

blank, May 15, 2009

#19

BIG-DOMINIC Member Full Member

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Blank...you on the right lines.But i just think that Floyd can't do any right once he beats Pac and Marquez they're gunna say they was too small you need to fight Mosely. Once he beat Mosely they gunna say he waited till he was too old. Then if he fought Paul Williams who is massive at the weight and he loses they'll just say look at that got schooled by a guy who lost to Quitanna. Far too many times with Floyd they look at what he hasnt done rather than what he has done. Ray Leonard....waited to face Hagler till he was old which is no hidden secret, he never faced Pryor, McCallum but I would never disrespect him and say he was scared or would lose becuase he would of won...it all boils down to money even with sugar ray because why did he come out of retirment and fight Duran at super middle, Hearns who was past his prime and Lalonde. Why not fight the top guys out there? Money. They the same they both wanted to chase the money.

BIG-DOMINIC, May 15, 2009

#20
ocelot Boxing Junkie Full Member

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SRL fought at least 4 fighters who are rightly considered ATGs. It's like Ali. The competition that was there at the time was just extraordinary. And you can't fight everyone. At WW, I don't know that I'd pick many fighters ever who could beat SRL in a 15 round fight. Mayweather's ducked everyone important at WW, but fought everyone who could be put in front of him at the lower weights, and destroyed most. You have to give him a lot of credit for that achievement. I wouldn't put him in the league of SRL, but then, not many fighters are.

ocelot, May 15, 2009

#21
angelos Well-Known Member Full Member

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I love Floyd but Leonard is The Man... Floyds current standing in the ATG list still remains at his current spot for me even if he beats Pac and Marquez. Unless of course he whips the big boys at 147 (Cotto,Shane) then i might consider him being equal to SRL.

angelos, May 15, 2009

#22

Kid Cuba Boxing Junkie banned

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BIG-DOMINIC said: ↑

By Dominic Athwal:

It annoys me when certain people question FMJ's career yet seem are all too happy just to say "oh sugar ray would of beaten him easy..he's a real legend". True I say SRL is a true legend a quick glimpse at his career shows this but soo is FMJ.

SRL started his career at welter and won the belt against two time world champion Benitez in his 26th fight. He contiued his onslaught on the division but lost to Duran who was coming up in a classic battle in which Duran secured his own legacy as a great fighter. He beat Duran in the comeback and then went onto beat Hearns in a legendary contest, before having one more fight and then retiring. If he had stayed retired then he would still be classed as a legend beating Duran, Hearns, and Benitez with only one loss.

On the other hand fmj started his career at super featherweight and won the belt from Hernandez in his 19th fight. FMJ like SRL went onto defend against the very best in his division including Manfredy and Chavez. He had his Duran/Hearns moment when he met with fellow undefeated champion and top P4P'er Corrales, but the difference is Mayweather dismantled him. By dismantling him he failed to recieve the same type of credit as SRL because he wasn't involved in a war.He simply outclassed Corrales.He didn't have anyone that could match him at the weight he had no equal thus he dismantled very good fighters, thus leaving people asking for him to challenge himself.

He moved up and beat Castillio twice, although the first time was very close. However he chose to fight him again, a decision which showed guts and heart and went on to convincly beat Castillio. After cleaning up at lightweight he went up and beat a WBC strap but in truth fading legend Gatti.

Now back to Leonard after retiring he came back once but then retired again, before annoucing his comeback after years out agaisnt Hagler. This was perhaps his greatest achievment in beating Hagler but in truth Hagler was fading and many people believe he was out of love with the sport and still many think he actually wom the fight. Then he went on an fought a weak fighter in Lalonde before having fights with Hearns and Duran both which were nothing more than money fights as the fighters were clearly past thier best.

Floyd after winning the LWW belt showed his class by moving up yet again and beating Judah and Baldomir convincly. Before dominating in two superfights against Hatton and ODH.

Both have had glittering careers but SRL career shows that to be regarded as one of the undisputable legends you need two thing's in your career a setback and a great comeback. Leonard had both of those with his loss against Duran and his legendary comeback agaisnt Hagler....therefore in conclusion FLoyd is a victim of his own talent because there has been no one good enough to push him. For me he would have to lose to someone then make a comeback and beat him for people to class him in that untouchable category of "Ali", "SRR" and "SRL".

I'm glad he's made the comeback...he would now need to lose and then avenage that loss for people to realise his true talent.
Click to expand...

:verysad

Kid Cuba, May 15, 2009

#23
Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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Mayweather`s ability is up there with the greats but he is still not at the Ray Leonard level yet, he likely will never get there either but you never know.

Leonard > Mayweather

Bill Butcher, May 15, 2009

#24
Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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Hadrian said: ↑

i agree with big d 100%. srl LOST his first fight to duran, won the 2nd under very suspicious circumstances, won 2 great w's against hearns and Benitez....and the rest of his resume is so-so-he should never have gotten the decision against hagler, he even admitted he lost the rematch with hearns. and camacho and norris beat his ass....
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Yeah, Spinks & Berbick beat Ali`s ass, whats your point ? :huh

Ps. Hagler knows he lost to Leonard, why the 22 year ***** by Marv ?... he`s annoyed with HIMSELF, believe me.

Bill Butcher, May 15, 2009

#25
]V[ooSeKnUcKLeS YAHHHHH Full Member

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bladerunner said: ↑

I stopped after i read the title.
Click to expand...

:good

]V[ooSeKnUcKLeS, May 15, 2009

#26

joe the great Boxing Addict Full Member

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Ray Leonard started at a higher weight and ended at a higher weight. Tough fight to call at 147-154. I'd pick Leonard at 160 or higher.

joe the great, May 15, 2009

#27
DINAMITA Guest

BIG-DOMINIC said: ↑

By Dominic Athwal:

It annoys me when certain people question FMJ's career yet seem are all too happy just to say "oh sugar ray would of beaten him easy..he's a real legend". True I say SRL is a true legend a quick glimpse at his career shows this but soo is FMJ.

SRL started his career at welter and won the belt against two time world champion Benitez in his 26th fight. He contiued his onslaught on the division but lost to Duran who was coming up in a classic battle in which Duran secured his own legacy as a great fighter. He beat Duran in the comeback and then went onto beat Hearns in a legendary contest, before having one more fight and then retiring. If he had stayed retired then he would still be classed as a legend beating Duran, Hearns, and Benitez with only one loss.

On the other hand fmj started his career at super featherweight and won the belt from Hernandez in his 19th fight. FMJ like SRL went onto defend against the very best in his division including Manfredy and Chavez. He had his Duran/Hearns moment when he met with fellow undefeated champion and top P4P'er Corrales, but the difference is Mayweather dismantled him. By dismantling him he failed to recieve the same type of credit as SRL because he wasn't involved in a war.He simply outclassed Corrales.He didn't have anyone that could match him at the weight he had no equal thus he dismantled very good fighters, thus leaving people asking for him to challenge himself.

He moved up and beat Castillio twice, although the first time was very close. However he chose to fight him again, a decision which showed guts and heart and went on to convincly beat Castillio. After cleaning up at lightweight he went up and beat a WBC strap but in truth fading legend Gatti.

Now back to Leonard after retiring he came back once but then retired again, before annoucing his comeback after years out agaisnt Hagler. This was perhaps his greatest achievment in beating Hagler but in truth Hagler was fading and many people believe he was out of love with the sport and still many think he actually wom the fight. Then he went on an fought a weak fighter in Lalonde before having fights with Hearns and Duran both which were nothing more than money fights as the fighters were clearly past thier best.

Floyd after winning the LWW belt showed his class by moving up yet again and beating Judah and Baldomir convincly. Before dominating in two superfights against Hatton and ODH.

Both have had glittering careers but SRL career shows that to be regarded as one of the undisputable legends you need two thing's in your career a setback and a great comeback. Leonard had both of those with his loss against Duran and his legendary comeback agaisnt Hagler....therefore in conclusion FLoyd is a victim of his own talent because there has been no one good enough to push him. For me he would have to lose to someone then make a comeback and beat him for people to class him in that untouchable category of "Ali", "SRR" and "SRL".

I'm glad he's made the comeback...he would now need to lose and then avenage that loss for people to realise his true talent.
Click to expand...

sugar ray would of beaten him easy..he's a real legend.

DINAMITA, May 15, 2009

#28
Bobby Heenan Boxing Addict Full Member

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trampie said: ↑

Interesting Post, I would not put FMJ on a par with SRL yet, I agree Floyd is a victim of his success, I also agree with you that boxers that lose to somebody and comeback and then beat that opponent, are then seen as fantastic. :nut
You will find that people on this site, reward failure, they like glorious losses, although I have been on here for a while, it still amazes me:shock:, that a boxer losing a fight, in certain circumstances is not seen as a negative, if a boxer moves up in weight and losses that is not seen as a negative, it may only be a small negative in a certain circumstance, but it is still a loss and a bad thing for that boxer in ranking terms as far as I am concerned.

Pacman is seen as a God on here, yet Mayweather who is a better boxer skill/ability wise, is better H2H wise {Pretty Boy has won every fight, Pacman has 2 draws and 3 losses on his card} their resumes are similar, yet for some reason people on here rank Pacman higher than Floyd all time. {perhaps its because they think that Manny is a nice person and Floyd is not, what that has got to do with boxing though I do not know}
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no doubt....i hear you

Bobby Heenan, May 15, 2009

#29
Kush Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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PowerPuncher said: ↑

Look at what Leonard didnt do that would be ripped on this board if he was around today:

1. Didnt face Pryor after Pryor called him out
2. Didnt fight young up and comers at 147 like Curry
3. Didnt face the best 154lbers like McCallum
4. Didnt face the best young middleweights like McCallum, Kalambay, Graham, BEnn, Barkley
5. Didnt rematch Hearns/Duran till both were past prime
6. Didnt rematch Hagler despite arguably losing
7. Faced easy belt holders at 154/175 and made Lalonde kill himself to make a catch weight
Click to expand...

:think

Kush, May 15, 2009

#30

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