What are you guys' thoughts on when a boxer holds when not exhausted or hurt. For example, last night Ward at times boxed and moved, yet at times he held with a purpose of smothering Miranda's power, frustrating, and keeping him close. For my personal taste, the holding appeared excessive and was frustrating to watch as I thought he had the speed and ability to school Miranda without the holding. Some will say holding is part of the science, while others will find it to be a way of avoiding to fight or sometimes cheating. I've noticed that holding can be interpreted differently depending on the boxing culture or flavor. for instance, it seems holding is more widely accepted and implemented among American boxing culture than Latino. What other boxing cultures accept or condemn holding in boxing? Thoughts?
Holding, clinching -- same thing. Part of the game, but has a dulling effect. As long as it isn't abused ala Ruiz or Borenard, I say it's ok.
hmm says... I think you can get a penalized for clinching too much..not sure. Some even say you can get disqualified... Strategy? yes.... Noble? not too most people. Not really aware on strategy and culture connections.
You have to consider that Miranda is wild and out of control most times, comes crashing in. ( which caused a headbutt very early in the fight) His wreckless limited style of fighting would only create more head to head contact accidental , or as we have seen ; deliberate. Ward absoltutely must grab on to a frustrated Miranda on the inside because who knows what that crap fighter will think of to gain an advantage. elbows when the ref cant see... low blows on the inside , you name it. If Miranda doesnt constantly come crahsing in and stays in the middle of the ring agaisnt Ward ; he gets knocked out. So Miranda has to come in fast and hard and then Ward has to tie him up. Strategy for Ward Cheating for Hatton because he is going to hold and hit .
Ward is no exception here last night. There are many times he was holding with one arm and hitting with the other as long as the ref didn't see it.
Clinching in the following fights: Ward Vs Pantera = Acceptable Ruiz Vs Anyone = Boring....Gay Bernard Hopkins Vs Anyone = Masterpiece Hatton Vs Anyone = WWE
Nazim Richardson recently said something like; "You don't have to fight the way the fans want you to. What you have to do is win." I think that statement is applicable here. Many times I've heard a corner tell a fighter; "When you're done punching, tie him up." If a fighter has a strategy to get off first, fire a combination, and then clinch, that's a perfectly acceptable way to win a fight. It's not very exctiting, but if it works, it's acceptable.
Guys that dont hold usually get ktfo in embarrassing and unhealty fashion. Maybe Americans dont want to make it on ESPN news this way
He was forced to do that by Miranda to retaliate. If Ward had his way; they would have boxed in the middle of the ring and Miranda gets sparked out.
Holding can be done at the right times in a way that's very strategic and smart. Hopkins represents both the smartest 'holder', and the worst. Some fights are masterworks, as far as when and how to hold. Other fights, like the Calzaghe fight, simply appear like an act of desperation.
That about breaks it down. Wlad's another one that gets crucified for it. Personally? I think they should penalize it more often, and that would discourage people from doing it excessively. I don't have a problem with some, but it shouldn't ruin the flow of a fight.
Or at least all refs should be consistent and decide to penalize or not penalize excessive clinching. I agree though too much clinching makes a fight not a fight.