The Winky-Calzaghe thread got me thinking: MARQUEZ or MOSLEY?

I had always placed Calzaghe above Winky in an all-time pound-for-pound sense, but the thread on it the other day really got me thinking... if you scored the Vargas and Taylor fights for Wright, then what really is the argument for having Joe higher than him? The zero? What else? Wright's resume would be clearly stronger. I'm not sure who I have higher between those two now, but the thread got me thinking about other placings I had previously been sure of but now may re-evaluate.


So, JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ or SHANE MOSLEY, who would you rank higher in your OAT pound-for-pound list?

And WHY?



Shane has two decisions over Oscar, but IMO he only deserved one.

Dinamita has a draw and a loss to Pac, but IMO he won one of those.



Both have a few losses, some of those disputed. Neither man has ever been badly beaten up or stopped.


Both are three-weight world champions.



:bbb

 

to be honest i can't believe that anyone can compare what calzaghe 'achieved' to winky or any other top flight fighter.

what do you think joe achieved in his prime that put him ahead of winky - regardless of how you saw the fights you mentioned?

 

I mean if you saw both Pac fights for Marquez and the John fight aswell..then really there is really a strong arguement for him being much much higher up the alltime rankings.
A lot easier to make the call when its all said and done IMO.if pushed Id probably say Mosley right now.

I scored the Pac II and John fights for JMM.

 

damn. Good one. both these guys are awesome

 

Mate, the more I think about it the less I understand why I placed Calzaghe ahead of Winky. I mean, I didn't even score the Hopkins fight for Joe. Take that "win" away, and you're left with not much of anything. A great win over Kessler, longevity/consistency, unifying a division (though I'm not sure taking a decade to do it is all that great), and two-weight success (dubious). Wright was a unified champ at lmw, and he beat Taylor for the mw titles IMO. His resume is better even without Vargas and Taylor, his two wins over Mosley alone easily top anything on Joe's resume including Kessler. And IMO, Wright was a better fighter at his peak in terms of ability/skill. Peak Winky was the 3rd best lmw ever after McCallum and Hearns in my eyes, better than Norris or any of the others. He was a technically brilliant fighter, unlike Joe who had fantastic physical attributes but whose sloppy defence would surely have seen him soundly outboxed by a peak Jones, Hopkins or Toney.

I posted a p4p top 100 last year and had Calzaghe at 97th and Winky not included. As I said, I'm now struggling to justify that to myself.

 

they are both hard fighters to place.

winky was a genuinely avoided fighter for most of his career until mosley gave him a crack, while joe genuinely avoided bigger fights.

both are very talented fighters.

 

All true.

And I have the same trouble separating JMM and SSM, hence the thread.

 

thats a good call.

both marquez and mosley are outstanding fighters clearly.

 

I had Mosley ahead a year ago, but I give Marquez so so much credit for going up to his 3rd weight and becoming the first man to KO two of the division's best, two guys who had never been stopped, two men naturally bigger than himself.

 

I really dont think that highly of Winky in a H2H sense..though he is certainly up there.

I would say Norris was better then him. Probably would pick Benvenuti, Benitez, Jackson to get past him.

Perhaps guys like Carter, Moyer ..who would have been more suited to the jnr middle division had it been around..could have beaten Winky. Most definitely Griffith and LMR.

Guys like Kalule, maybe even Mo Hope and Wajima could be considered toss ups. Prime Drayton wouldnt have been easy for him either.

 

Very much an admirer of both, but it's Marquez for me.

As usual, resume has nothing to do with it. Never will.

 

If we're keeping it to men who actually fought in the lmw div: you think Norris would beat Winky? I genuinely don't. How do you see that one unfolding? You know, your post has thrown up some really interesting hypotheticals. Perhaps time to start a thread in the Classic about Winky v the best lmw's ever...

 

bottom line is that winky, like hopkins, was never beaten soundly when it mattered.

hopkins may not have been an exciting fighter aside from his masterclass against tito, but winky was also too good for his own good.

dominating mosley in the first fight especially and destroying tito really showed why some fighters legitimately avoided winky.

even oscar said he chose not to fight winky (though i can't reference where i saw this).

 

i agree 100%.

i dont see norris beating winky at any time.

 

Vasquez??

Though at that point Winky was not yet the fighter he turned out to be - not unlike Hopkins's troubles in Mercado I.