How does Jack Johnson vs the best 160 or 168'er go?

Prime Jack Johnson is about the same size of Sonny Liston. (210 lbs)

Plus he can box, has a great defense, has power and a "kick-ass attitude".

He would just beat up any little guy moving up from 160-168 lbs.

 

I'm a realist and my picks are chiefly based on what I think would happen. If the match up is in Johnson's favor, I'll pick him and explain why.

I have seen all the films on Johnson. His defense is greatly over rated. He gets tagged and out boxed from the outside. I still think Johnson's best stuff is on the inside, where he could use his clinching, uppercuts, short arms, and brute strength to his advantage.

I watched 20 rounds of a slightly past his prime Johnson vs a medium level contender in Frank Moran. Moran was the better on the outside, and was barely edged on my card. Fight reports say O'Brien's had no trouble landing his fast jab on Johnson and was the better by a shade in their 6 round match. And Battling Jim Johnson landed plenty too, and was in fact robbed into a draw. Even Willard who really was not terribly skilled landed plenty from the outside. Where is this great defense???

I believe Johnson's defense was only half complete. He had good punch anticipation, good glove blocking, and quick reflexes, but he was too stationary with his feet, and had a low guard. He also liked to lean back a lot, which works if you have a few inches on a guy ( like he had on Burns, Ketchel or Langford ), but at 6'1" really won't work well on a guys close to his size or bigger.

 

Liston was much more impressive from a tale of the tape standpoint.

 

Johnson weighed 225lbs for the Moran fight he was 17bs above his best weight.Johnson was 37 when he fought Willard.Johnson broke his left arm against Jim Johnson ,,wonder why you did not mention these facts?

 

:rofl

 

Mendoza is famously objective and impartial when discussing Jack Johnson.

 

And Moran would not be a top 20 heavyweight today. Johnson was a little heavy ( 15 pounds over his prime weight by your standards ) , but had enough stamina to go 20. Face it, Johnson's skills vs a fringe contender were just enough.:deal

Jim " battling Johnson " beat up Jack Johnson. He won more rounds, and had Johnson nearly out when Jack Johnson quit. The Cyber Boxing Zone reports it was a 20 round fight, not 10. The decision somehow was a draw even though one judge had Battling Jim in the lead, and the other two had no comment! If there was any justice Jim battling Johnson is the new champ via TKO. At the very least Jack Johnson could have given Jim a rematch to clear his good name, but he didn't. In fact the nation of France wanted to strip Johnson as champion, and give the belt to the winner of Langford vs Jeanette.

Back to the point of this thread. How does Johnson do vs the best middles or supper middles. It is fact that Jack Johnson was 1-1-1 vs middle to supper middles in Choynski, Ketchel, and O'Brien. In these three fights the great Jack Jonson was knocked out by one man, suffered a knocked down by the other, and , jabbed by the other.

How do you like those facts, Mcvey?

I have fight reports if you want to read them.

 

Denver Ed Martin, Sam Langford, Sam McVea, and Joe Jeanette were more than just fringe contenders and Jack Johnson went a combined 10-1 against these men.

 

Tough match-ups for the little guys here. Johnson was comparatively much stronger, though I do not think he comes close to modern heavies in that department.

Jones, Robinson and Tunney I would pick quite easily over Johnson.

The rest I would favor Johnson with Calzaghe and Hagler having the best chances.

 

It is probably safe to say that Johnson was one of the strongest if not the strongest heavyweights under 210 lbs of all time.

 

Agreed. Calzaghe would get tossed around like a ragdoll in the clinches and knocked out

 

If we're talking prime Johnson, I don't see any of them winning. If we're talking about a green Johnson (Not like the Jolly Green Giant), then it'd get interesting. No idea who the one would be to win, but Tunney would be at the top of my list to take care of a still-learning and not entirely physically developed JJ.

 

Because he pushed around middleweights, alcoholics and washed up ex-fat men?