Aristotle -- first and second potentialities and actualities.

I'll let Kurgan put my thoughts on this subject into words.

 

And I thought my philosophy degree would have no real world applications...

 

What you're essentially saying, if I understand you correctly, is that someone may know how to box great, and thus has the potential to box great, but it doesn't necessarily follow that he will box great or be a great boxer ever in his life. Like Cintron, who has been given all the physical tools and technical tutelage to box great, yet probably never will.

I´m not actually sure if my interpretation is correct.

 

If a person has the aquisites, combined with the adventure of complimenting them via actions... I guess the potential is met.

IN PLAIN ENGLISH, someone has to be in the woods to hear the tree fall.

 

An opposite would be Spike Milligan's cure for sea sickness."sit under a tree".:yep

 

To simplify this we must agree on simple definitions


potential is the highest level of greatness attainable by a fighter

actuality is the present state of being of the fighter


in order to move from potentiality to actuality (or acutlaize his potential) a fighter must develop the virtues necessary to achieve his end. This is where character comes in. It is the fighters mental states that allow him to achieve his actuality.

human beings never are fully actualized (although they in theory could actualize their potential)because by St. Thomas Aquinas' definition only God is pure Actuality with no potentiality. So no fighter can be purely actualized.

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On the other side of the coin we can take a Bruce Lee view. That we are an onion with many similar layers. Furthermore, after tearing through these similiar layers we eventually unearth our true self. Last of all, through fighting we can express this self.

 

I actually took a look at the opening post, and as i read through it i became intrigued, i kept with it all the way through and was not lost or confused i'm glad to say.

By the way, on what Ricardinho said about through fighting we express ourselves (after the Bruce Lee insight), i might be of distaste here with this one, but for those of you who know about English football, here is something that fits in a little with that i think.

Arsene Wenger is a football manager who sets up his team to only play what is known as 'total football', supposedly innovated by the dutch. He does no tactics, Arsene, no defending leads when his team is ahead on the scoresheet, just only wants his eleven men to play beautiful football and pass and move, attack, attack, attack, he is a stubbern man, and though his team is not successful right now, he believes his philosophy is football's right one.

He once said, (along these lines), 'on the football field a player cannot hide his true character. Behind closed doors he can hide, but on the football pitch there is no hiding and he always expresses his true self, his character is revealed'

I know that's not to do with the opening post, but is somewhat interlinked with Ricardinho's last sentence. I do think, and i think it should go without saying, that it is more apparent within boxing though, because of the nature of the sport, and the fact it is not a team game, like Naseem Hamed once said- 'when that bell rings for round 1, it is the loneliest place in the world'. The warrior is always revealed. But the level of passion that goes hand in hand with football at the highest level, when players are battling for trophies for their beloved fans to be made proud, well not all of the time in today's game, but still it happens, character is revealed.

By the way, i think that in terms of the opening post, boxing is a dam fine example of explaining the whole thing, because in boxing there are many levels of greatness, so potential is potentially actualised more than once within the same being, Manny Paquiao is showing that now.

 

Kudos!!! Very good post although I dont agree with your view it is a solid understanding and well constructed cagreement. I had no idea that Arsene Wenger played football like that. Thanks, I will watch some games now. I love futbol as well. Back to boxing---and I guess Aristotle. I think that this post is the first time I ever got philosophical on boxing. I have had to look at the sport differantly so I think this thread although a bit too brainy was an excellent idea.

 

Haha, yes thanks, not sure i agree with it too much either, it was jsut sort of a food for thought type insight. I think Wenger is a bit soft in the head for playing football the way he does, it means he loses a lot of games because his players attack so much they get countered plenty, but he sees it as 'the right way to pla football', a very stubbern man indeed. But if you want to check out his beautiful football, his stuff from about 2004 was amazing.

Anyway, i'm out for the night now, but thanks for the replay, Bye for now.