Arguello vs Nelson @ 130

I am not saying that Arguello was not in his prime at 130 compared to 140. What I am saying is that great fighter that Arguello is he would be stopped by Azumah Nelson period who was an even better fighter and physically more powerful and stronger man. That is not to denigrate Arguello.

Also I have heard all the crap about the black bottle etc but the reason Arguello lost to Pyror was simply Pryor was the better fighter. This was not cheating like Margarito versus Cotto.

 

The black bottle thing is an ugly black eye on that sport that will never go away. I don't think the black bottle can be completely dismissed. Panama Lewis was involved. This is the same guy who removed padding from Luis Resto's gloves (very much like Margarito vs Mosely, which I assume you mean and not Margarito - Cotto). It's very, very possible that Pryor was the better man anyway that night but I think there's too much to completely throw out the black bottle issue.
Nelson beating Arguello is not an outlandish position by any means. I tend to disagree but it would be boring as hell if we all agreed on everything. I also disagree that Nelson was clearly superior at 130 than Pryor was at 140 especially in the context of fighting the same man (Arguello who was clearly better at 130).
Nelson beat many very good fighters and maybe a couple great ones, but I don't put as much stock in his defeat of Gomez. Gomez never beats Nelson at 126 IMO, but he was at least 2 years past best when he fought Nelson. Gomez got an absolute gift against Rocky Lockridge in his next fight. It's a nice win for Nelson but Gomez just wasn't the fighter he was at 122 and it doesn't do much to support Nelson beating Arguello at 130.

 

I purposely made reference to Margarito versus Cotto though you can square bracket the Mosley fight as well. Margarito is a cheat and has been doing it for years. He should be banned for life. He could have ruined the superior Cotto. I don't base my analysis of Nelson beating Arguello on the Gomez fight rather on a forensic examination of both fighters careers, abilities, skills and attributes including the intangibles.

Panama Lewis the less said about him the better. As far as I am concerned he is responsible for the death of Billy Collins Junior. As for the so called black bottle we don't know that there was anything amiss it is pure speculation.

In case it does not come across I am also a big fan of Arguello I was rooting for him against Pryor but my recollections of the fight is that the Hawk just would not be denied that night.

They are all great fighters. For me Arguello would have beaten ODLH at 130, 135 and 140 pounds.

 

130 was Alexis' best weight, and I think he would survive Azumah's onslaught, and stop him around the 13th/14th round. Nelson was never the hardest guy to hit at any stage of his career, and I think he may have dropped Arguello in the middle rounds and gone to finish him, which is when Arguello would start landing his most precise shots.

Yes, Azumah was green when he fought Sanchez. But even though his guard was more efficient in his later days, he was by all accounts an aggresive fighter and not a defensive one. He was never a 'mover' per se, so I see no reason Arguello wouldn't beat him.

I think Alexis would beat any 130lber of all-time, even Floyd, although over 12 that fight becomes closer.

 

Olu, you think Nelson was more powerful than Arguello? The same Arguello who has, along with Hearns possibly the best right hand in history?

I guess Ajose Olusugen (I couldn't give two ****s for the spelling) would beat Alexis at 140 though, am I right?

To the unitiated on the classic forum, take whatever this guy says with a pinch of salt.

 

Nelson UD

 

Arguello tko-11

 

Nelson`s defence & pressure style would be his downfall in this one, Arguello would just tee off on him with that big right hand & Nelson would crumble in rd 11.

Not very analytical I know but thats how I see the finish.

Great war tho :good

 

Fleaman you are an idiot. The discussion is about Azumah Nelson and Arguello. When Nelson hurts a fighter and has them going he finishes them off. Saying he would defeat Arguello does not diminsh Arguello. They are both great fighters. You obviously have problems with rating African fighters hence your rant. Would anyone really be surprised by Azumah Nelson the greatest African fighter of all time and pound for pound one of the greatest fighters ever defeating another great like Arguello. The same Nelson who destroyed the unbeaten Jeff Fenech in his hometown of Sydney Australia, destroyed the great Gomez in hois hometown of Puerto Rico defeated several number 1 contenders like Azabache Mario Martinez, Villasana et al and toyed with them.

Also to think Nelson was a pressure fighter shows just how stupid and uninformed you are. Nelson could apply pressure and was also a master boxer puncher. Essentially a complete fighter. He had several ways to do in his opponents whereas Arguello only had 1 method. Nelson also had a superior chin. A great right hand is fine but Nelson had a great everything he hit you with, bags of skill and heart. I know he would have overpowered Arguello. This is not even debatable frankly.

 

You were kind of talking reasonable for a couple posts but you're back to the over the top, soap box, "not even debatable" mentality. I'm sorry, but the issue between Arguello and Nelson is highly debatable. Were Martinez and Villasana better than Navarette, Boza-Edwards, Chacon, Limon, Escelara? Highly debatable but I'd give an edge to Arguello's overall resume at 130. Nelson had a superior chin? Says who? By virtue of being stopped by Sanchez? Arguello was never stopped below 140 (anywhere near his prime). Would Jesse James Leija have stood a chance against Arguello? I tend to doubt it. Yeah, Nelson took care of Fenech in the 2nd fight but he got a gift draw in the first fight. Nelson got a split decision against Martinez. Chavez handled Martinez easier. Like I said before, I don't take issue with someone saying Nelson beats Arguello, it's just that you seem to have a horse in this race and you're selectively picking out facts to support your argument. By the way, the Villasana fights were at 126. Stack up Nelson's 130 resume against Arguello's. Arguello's is better. Hey, if you think Nelson beats him just because, that's fine. Nelson was a great fighter. You're clearly sifting through the records to support your agenda though.

p.s. Alfredo Layne destroyed the great Gomez in his hometown shortly thereafter. I'll repeat again, Nelson stopping a past it Gomez (I don't care if it was in Gomez living room) at 126 means absolutely nothing in this matchup.

 

Nelson also got all he could handle from guys like Martinez, Ruelas, Leija, LaPorte, and Suarez, and arguably was outboxed by Martinez and Ruelas in fights that he got the decision. Why is it only Arguello's tough fights and shortcomings that you're looking at in this matchup? Nelson has no shortage that you could look at as well, especially at 130 where this match is actually being proposed.

 

First of all I was addressing the idiotic fleaman. I am not going to denigrate Arguello another great man, fighter and champion who has only brought honour and dignity to boxing. Arguello is a personal favorite along with Azumah Nelson. I never pick fights on popularity but on an honest assessment of the fighters styles, skills, attributes and intangibles hence my going for Azumah Nelson over Arguello. No one needs to defend the records of both guys which speaks for itself.

The judges who gave Nelson a split decision win over Martinez the 1st time were clearly blind and it was for that reason Azumah prolonged Azabache Martinez pain in the rematch giving him a boxing lesson before putting his lights out.

As for the 1st Fenech fight though Azumah was not at his best(suffering from acute malaria) he still won clearly for me 116-112 as 1 of the judges had it. The dignity of the man is such that he immediately offered Fenech a rematch in Australia and gave the Thunder from Down Under the full treatment. As a result Nelson became a hero in Australia as well.

People forget that Nelson was a novice professional when he fought the great Sanchez as a last minute substitute and gave Sanchez what can only be called true hell until he ran out of gas in round 15. In many ways this was the making of Nelson as he was merely a rough diamond at this stage. Both men fought the best of their era so the quality of their opposition cannot be questioned.

The likes of Leija and Ruelas came when Azumah was way past his best and he still beat them as well. I am not a particular fan of Bob Arum but he knows his stuff as evidenced by them steering ODLH away from an old Azumah Nelson at 130 and picked on Jimmy Bredahl instead. One thing is clear Arum is no fool.

 

Arguello and Nelson did not have shortcomings. You can point to struggles when they were not at their best. That is something else. For me the manner of their defeats to the Hawk Aaron Pryor and the legendary Sanchez is honorable.

 

Arguelo i think would take this for reasons pointed out before as in tall boxer pncher vs a pressure fighter

also Azumah Nelson is coming to Aberdeen to support a member of his tribe against Lee McCallister so i might try an get a word with him

 

Zoomy here and ready to join the fray. Fleaman you come with a whack analysis on this great match up. Whatever Olu's background on here, he clearly knows he's stuff. You know when you are dealing with the flock of the boxing supporters world when they start judging match up's on the oh soooo deep level of 'he isthe bigger man'..... so the bloody what. If Tyson and dempsey and Hagler listened to that refrain we would be denied many alltimers.

Some simple points here! It is clear to anyone able to look at both fighters careers (and i have shelved out a few pounds on both career box sets) that Azumah was the more complete boxer! Arguello whilst great lacked adaptability, he was great offensively but crap defensively and when not dominating could eat a lot of leather. Put it this way Arguello versus a prime Fenech would have been a ding dong affair. Fenech would not back down and Arguello would have to war it out. There is now way arguello would have the adaptability and skillset to do to Fenech what Nelson did in the out back!
Infact besting Fenech and Gomez on their home turf, infront of hostile crowds, and technically disabling them ranks higher in pure boxing terms than anything Arguello did. Against Pryor... well Pryor great as he was fought dumb against Arguello.... he could have boxed clever and made it easier nights, but the Hawk had a macho instinct. Azumah has been the terminator, the boxer puncher, the mover, the in fighter and master of the dark arts in his career. he just had many styles. Only fighter i saw really give him fits was sweet pea.... but that sweet pea version was a freak of nature!
Olu, spot on mate!:happy