How would Mike Tyson be viewed if he retired 37-0?

Bingo..

And there lies the issue within. You can basically pick apart the people who knew how good Mike TRULY was when at his best, versus those who seem to think that any half ass fighter would beaten him. The first clue is when people use the Douglas defeat as a beacon for cross era fantasy matchups. As soon as I hear someone bring that one up, I basically turn away from the debate knowing full well that the otherside has no clue...

 

I've also had the same questions about Liston (35-1) and Foreman (40-0, 37 KO's).

What if they had retired before facing Ali? Would anyone have thought that they would lose to Ali?

Also Jim Jeffries not coming out of retirement to fight Jack Johnson, Dempsey not fighting Tunney, Frazier retiring after beating Ali, Sullivan not fighting Corbett and so on.

 

He would have been viewed the same way as Marciano. He was dominating, and had established his aura of being unbeatable by just about everyone including most boxing critics. Only crotchidy old boxing writers like Mike Katz thought Tyson would be beaten easily, but then again he picked Biggs to easily outbox Tyson.

 

Isn't that the way, sadly, most people do it though?

I can't remember how many times I've seen someone argue against Lewis in a fantasy match-up starting with something along the lines of "Well, if McCall/Rahman can knock him out then..."

People seem to automatically look for the worst versions, not the best.
Same with Mike. Sad but it happens a lot. Too many think the way to build someone up is to put someone else down, rather than letting them stand on their own merits.

 

top 3 alltime heavy

 

I think there would be more questions than answers. 37-0 (33) is a very nice record. However 49-0 is the mesuering stick.

 

Very true,

We are on the same page....

Despite his brief glitches against McCall and Rahman, Lewis makes my top 5 list and would have had my vote to beat most of the greatest champions head to head. He defeated a long slew of giant heavyweights who were well rated and in their primes, and did so with ease. Two losing efforts ( both avenged ) do not define a career, spanning a record of nearly 50 pro fights and two olympic medals....

 

Depending of course, on how the comp measured up as well as time spent facing the top of one's division..

 

At the time everyone was saying Tyson was the next ATG HW KING, that Ali, Foreman, Louis, Marciano, etc would never have beaten him. judging from the performances he put on, who would have second guessed that belief? Even the old timers like Jake LaMotta were raving about him. I remember Ali at one point saying on Arsenio Hall that Tyson probably would have beaten him. Everybody was buying into the myth, legend, of Mike Tyson.

Had he retired after Truth, he probably would have gotten the #1 HW of all time. But, he didnt, and we saw how good Tyson actually was. He wasnt the best, like people were led to believe. He lost to Douglas in a HUGE way, lost to Holyfield twice in a HUGE way, lost to Lewis in a HUGE way. Its safe to say Ali and Louis's top spots are safe.

But had he retired then at 37-0-0, I'm sure he would have gotten the nod for #1, or at least #2, because, who would have second guessed him?

 

Solid post....Absolutely solid...

 

Grumpy old man time (I'm only 31!) but the thing I really miss the most from the heavyweight division...more guys with solid amateur experience.

Too many heavies around today have very little or none and it's sad, back when you watch the best guys in action from previous years it's just that extra touch of class that's obvious. That sense of them really working to a plan and doing it well, not just slugging away or bobbing about waiting for an opening.

There's few things sadder to me in boxing than seeing a guy with a lot of potential but you know he never had the proper training and amateur fights when younger to capitalize on it.

 

It goes even deeper than that. The real trainers are the ones that are disappearing, as evident by the top fighters that win gold medals in the olympics either cant fight or have real bad flaws in their games. It takes a lifetime to develop a fighter from scratch, and a special person to be a boxing trainer, especially when 99% of the fighters leave their original trainer as soon as their hard work is about to pay off. The top trainers today have no interest in developing young fighters, they are too busy taking established fighters and trying to improve them already half way through their pro careers when they are earning big paydays.

 

2nd or 3rd for sure.

 

Basically Tyson was a living legend when he was rising to the top and remained even more so given the manner in which he securred the title. I'm slightly older than Tyson so I remember the awe surrounding him, and the excitment in the bars etc whenever he was about to fight.

Had he remained undefeated and never had lost that air of invincibility he had he likely would have been thought of as the greatest of all time. If not by his record, then certainly in a head to head context.