Joe Louis Vs Jack Johnson

A close one but i would say Louis. Johnson was a great boxer but he never fought anyone who could punch like Lewis or anyone near his calibre. Louis would land some clever angle shots and put toghether some combos and give Johnson a nightmare. I would go for a KO for Lewis before the 10th.

 

Louis all the way its a no brainer....Louis was smart that he knew when he couldnt Ko someone he would box there ears off....While Johnson was a great fighter he never fought someone of Louis's pedigree

 

I've never seen clean film of Jeannette during his prime, but in any rate, Johnson never beat him in his prime.

Was Burns unskilled? Look at the film.Do you honestly believe that he lasts more than a few rounds against Joe Louis?

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I have always favoured Johnson in a match up

 

How about adding in Johnson's agenda in his fights ... he had Burn's dropped hard twice in the first round and made a concious decision to carry him and punish him ..

He carried Ketchel and flattened him the second he was double crossed.

Amazing how Jeanette was 26 years old when he first fought Johnson but we are to believe he was a two year fighter ... what a joke. What was he doing till he was 25, accounting ? Obviously the man had years of unrecorded bouts ...

Whatever ...

Johnson, like Tyson and Jones Jr., remains a very polarizing figure who most do not look at rationally ...

 

Did Burns ever fight welter in his prime ? I always thought at least he was a Qwai sized light heavy ... he obviously fought at heavy for the $ and was good enough to do so ..

He was very fast, cagey, strong and hard hitting, not to mention tough and very well conditioned ...great chin as well ..

 

HE,

Jeanette took up boxing late. I think he worked on docks before trying out boxing. It is highly unlikely you will find Jeanette's early fights that are not documented.

Like many who started boxing late with no amateur experience, Jeanette struggled early. He was pretty much a .500 fighter when he first meet Johnson.

As I have said before, wins over Jeanette, Langford, and McVey look great on a resume, BUT Jeanette was green as grass and .500 fighter, Langford was but 156 pounds, and McVey was a teenager when Johnson defeated him.

When Johnson met talented mature fighters who were not 156 pounds, not .500 fighters, and not teenagers, he struggled a lot. See the Choynski, Griffin, Klondike and Hart fights.

 

Why dont you show the fight with Bill Squires?
That will give a better illustration of Burns boxing ability.
The last time Johnson beat Jeanette was in 1906 ,Jeanette was nearly 27 years old and had just kod Langford in 8 rds.

 

"Green as grass"? The last time Johnson beat Jeanette was in 1906 ,Jeanette's previous fight had been an 8 round ko over Sam Langford,Jeanette was nearly 27 years old.
Mcvey was a teenager ,JUST! he was one month short of 20 when
Johnson koed him in 20 rds, to add to his 2 , 20 round dec wins over him when he was 19.
Which fight did Johnson struggle in when he was in his prime? He was undefeated for 10 years.PLEASE DONT REGURGITATE THE O BRIEN WALTZ.

 

Jeanette took up boxing late. He was most certainly a novice and one with a .500 record when he meet Johnson in the series.

McVey was a teenager. There are no heavyweights at their best when they are teenagers. In fact, most all time greats would lose as teenagers to solid veteran types as they are just not ready. And the Johnson Mcvey meet was a teenager.

At least you " got it " that Langford was but 156 pounds. A far cry from the 170-200 pound heavyweight terror he would mature into in later years.

Which fight did Johnson struggle in his prime? That depends on how you define prime. Using Johnson own words he says Hart whipped him in his prime. O'Brien made Johnson struggled via out jabbing him in a close 6 round contest while Johnson was champion. And Johnson most certainly struggled in his fight with Jim Battling Johnson.

I listed THREE fights from 1905-1913 where Johnson struggled. I could add in a 4th if you want to consider getting floored by a middle weight.

If you want to read the news reports, I can post them here. The stuff I have are either reports after the fight happened, ( O'Brien, Jim Johnson ) or Johnson's own words ( Hart ).

 

I bet those news reports are pretty tattered and thin by now ,you whip them out at every opportunity don't you?
News reports of those times were highy susceptible to bias ,depending on who was writing the story,eg Box recs info on the OBrien NO DEC with Johnson, where there are wildly differing accounts of the same fight.
It's hilarious how you readily beleive a quote from Johnson such as "Hart beat me",yet dismiss those where he says" I had no trouble with Jeffries at all I was his superior in every department", or the Ketchel one "he double crossed me I handed him what he deserved",If you beleive one quote, surely you must believe them all? It's called" taking the rough with the smooth"
PERSONALLY I WOULD BE VERY WARY OF GIVING CREDENCE TO ANY THING JOHNSON SAID ,HE CHANGED HIS OPINION LIKE THE WIND,IN ONE BOOK HE SAID THE REFEREE GOT THE TWO FIGHTERS MIXED UP AND POINTED TO THE WRONG MAN, DESPITE HART BEING WHITE!
If a man goes 10 years without defeat I think we can take it he is reasonably good!
I see you did not respond to my reply to your previous post about Johnson's chances against Louis.I think your appraisal of Louis against big men was totally off the mark ,and it surprised me .

 

Mendoza says: Jeanette took up boxing late. He was most certainly a novice and one with a .500 record when he meet Johnson in the series.

McVey was a teenager. There are no heavyweights at their best when they are teenagers. In fact, most all time greats would lose as teenagers to solid veteran types as they are just not ready. And the Johnson Mcvey meet was a teenager.

At least you " got it " that Langford was but 156 pounds. A far cry from the 170-200 pound heavyweight terror he would mature into in later years.

Which fight did Johnson struggle in his prime? That depends on how you define prime. Using Johnson own words he says Hart whipped him in his prime. O'Brien made Johnson struggled via out jabbing him in a close 6 round contest while Johnson was champion. And Johnson most certainly struggled in his fight with Jim Battling Johnson.

I listed THREE fights from 1905-1913 where Johnson struggled. I could add in a 4th if you want to consider getting floored by a middle weight.

If you want to read the news reports, I can post them here. The stuff I have are either reports after the fight happened, ( O'Brien, Jim Johnson ) or Johnson's own words ( Hart ).

I read a few reports on Johnson vs O'Brien, and they all say Johnson STRUGGLED. Also, since you mentioned Box Rec, their report says O'Brien was the better by a shade. How can say Johnson did not struggle vs O'brien???atsch.

Show me one report that said Johnson won easy vs O'brien. :deal

Mendoza says: It is clear Johnson was an self centered ego manic. These types will often exaggerate the facts or lie to make themselves look good. Yet he says Hart won. There is no doubt that Johnson also struggled with Hart. :deal

Also, I see you aren't touching the Jim Johnson match with a ten foot pole, as Johnson struggled here too.:deal As usual this is a case of you either being ignorant to the facts, or biased to the point where the truth does not matter. If you follow the predictable pattern, you'll resort to personal attacks soon.

I said I think Johnson could give Louis some trouble on styles, but Louis' accuracy and combination punching make him my projected winner via TKO.

 

Man you two are linked like Ali and Frazier ...