Who ranks higher all-time: John Ruiz or Vitali Klitschko?

and Vitaly quit agaisnt Byrd

beaten by Roy Jones

negative. Toney was cheating, and got caught.

most people score this fight for ruiz

yup, and his trainer was ejected, and Ruiz swept the final 8 rounds and won.

holy in his last fight fought a close fight with Lewis, and holy is still fighting for titles today.

his sterling reign, the best title reign of the 2000s, trumps early split decision losses to prospects

and what was his title reign like?

i dont know how anyone can say vitali b/c of his wins over sanders and williams and a loss to lewis

 

Resume is not just wins. Ruiz never dominated anyone decent and has to rely on unfair practice and gift decisions at times.

 

Exactly, resume's include losses and HOW fights were won.

 

vitali never dominated anyone decent

 

Yes he did. Let's take Kirk Johnson for example, out of shape, but Vitali blasted him and would have always blasted him.

How about the only man to ever stop the underrated Larry Donald?

How about dominative wins over Sanders - Williams - Hoffman?

You said 'decent'.

Meanwhile, let's look at losses, which 'Pharoah' highlighted Ruiz's.

Vitali's - Dominating Byrd, injury forced a withdrawl. Competitive fight with an ATG in Lewis, injury forces a withdrawl when he was up by a bit.

It's not even comparable. Vitali would not have lost to Jones, Toney, Valuev, Chagaev, that version of Holyfield and wouldn't have been blown out in 17 seconds against Tua.

 

they each had two title reigns...compare those for me.

 

They were still far better than anyone Ruiz dominated. Vitali also didn't lose to fighters of Kobozev/Nicholson calibre.



On Ruiz's side, you have:

NC 12 James Toney (where he was losing badly, despite Toney's steroids)

D Shot Holyfield

L Chagaev
L Valuev
L Shot Holyfield
L Jones
L Tua (19 second knockout)
L Kobozev
L Nicholson

W Golota
W Oquendo
W Kirk Johnson (by DQ...hardly satisfying there)
W Shot Holyfield
W Rahman


Yes, he has some impressive wins, but he also has a few glaring losses that no other top heavyweight would have suffered (aside from Wladimir Klitschko, ironically--but he only made that mistake once, not twice). None of Ruiz's wins were dominant.



Vitali:

W (KO) Williams
W (KO) Sanders
W (KO) Johnson
W (KO) Donald
W (KO) Hide

L Lennox Lewis (injury)
L Chris Byrd (injury)


None of these victories are quite as good as Ruiz's win over Rahman, but Vitali was far more consistent than Ruiz was, and always won in impressive, dominant fashion. Moreover, both of his losses were closer, and against better opposition, than any of Ruiz's losses....and he never lost to a fighter like Kobozev or Nicholson. Heck, I don't think he lost a round against a fighter like Kobozev or Nicholson.

That's why Vitali is a bit above Ruiz. Ruiz's wins are better only if you ignore how he won...but even if you do so, you can't ignore his losses.

 

Whoops. I just noticed someone else already made a post very similar to the previous one.

 

so really, vitali has two decent wins over two former wbo titlists (sanders, hide) and ruiz has two decent wins over two former undisputed champions (rahman, holyfield)

 

Paper titles--only worthwhile to denote the four top contenders and/or if they are unified.

We're looking at the quality of fighters each beat, not whether there was an ABC title involved in any of these cases. That's why most rate Liston above Patterson--because most of his best wins came before the title.

 

Vitali has five wins against decent contenders.
Ruiz has five wins against decent contenders.

Vitali destroyed his five contenders.
Ruiz squeaked by them.

Vitali has two losses to a lineal champion and the second-best fighter of his generation.
Ruiz has 7 losses, 1 NC where he was dominated, and 1 draw to lesser opposition.



...And Holyfield was clearly shot. That is, unless you intend to give Donald, Toney, and soon Ibragimov credit for beating a "former lineal champion" as well.

 

Watching a Vitali Klitschko fight it was clear who the winner was. A John Ruiz fight when he did not get beat was usually a close controversial criminal decision. Not to mention Ruiz was schooled TWICE by former Middleweights for christ sakes! TWICE!. Ruiz did not fight within the rules and was used by King in hopes of getting the huge Hispanic fanbase behind a Heavyweight fighter. Too bad that fighter had little skill and did not fight within the rules. King's master plan back fired. Ruiz is a joke.

 

Ruiz also got his ass kicked by 2 former Middleweights, one that has a Glass Jaw one of the worst in the sport. Case Closed.

 

Ruiz has accomplished way more than Vitali ever will.

 

Like getting beat by Glass Jaw Roy Jones and a fat James Toney?