Let's switch Willie Pep and Sweet Pea

lucky you SS

 

He's a bit like Junior Witter.

 

Suzie if you read my post you owuld notice it isnt Prime for Prime fights Pep ios head and shoulders above them though

 

Suzie Q : Oh, there they go. There they go, every time I start talkin 'bout boxing, a white man got to pull Sammy Angott out their ass. That's their one, that's their one. Sammy Angott. Sammy Angott. Let me tell you something once and for all. Sammy Angott was good, but compared to Willie Pep, Sammy Angott ain't ****!

Sweet_Scientist: He beat Willie Pep's ass.

Robbi: That's right he did whip Willie Pep's ass.

Suzie Q : Willie Pep was an 126 pound fighter when they fought!

Robbi: I don't know how heavy he was, but he got his ass whooped.





I get ya....

 

Lucky me indeed.:good

 

How did Junior Witter ever get dominated by Zab Judah. I will never understand that.

 

I don't think either would do it more often than not, but he fights them a few times I can see him coming up with a loss for sure. Bar Saddler, Fenech and Pedroza are better fighters than anyone Pep fought at featherweight.

He's not alone in thinking so. Pea, RB and myself all think Rodriguez was the more talented welterweight.

 

I'm sorry, but Pep's era was not as strong as is being made out. It was a good era, don't get me wrong, but outside of Saddler he never proved himself against a fellow great Featherweight, so why the hell would I be so out of bounds to assume he loses one to a great Featherweight who holds what I feel is a significant styles edge?

And yes, Rodriguez was the better fighter than Griffith from what I've seen. I've not seen all of their series, but the bout I have seen (the 3rd fight which was ruled a Griffith win) was a robbery in the opinion of myself and most others. Raging B(_)LL, who's seen the entire series, believes Rodriguez clearly won each and every one of their 4 bouts! He also rates Rodriguez on a different level to Griffith.

 

I wouldnt disagree with this. But who was the best FEATHERWEIGHT fenech took on? Victor Callejas?? LOL

Pedroza certainly never took on any featherweight near the class of pep and struggled incredibly with guys like Lockridge, Taylor, Laporte.....Honestly those 3 are no better than Sierra, Terranova, Compo. If Pedroza took on Sanchez, we would have a better idea. I think Sanchez would badly outclass pedroza.

First of all...Saddler is a top 2-3 all time at 126lb, so that is a BIG win. Who did Pedroza or Fenech beat at 126lb that comes close to the level of Saddler or Pep?

Albert Chalky Wright is a First Ballot Hall of Fame Feathweight Champion. I would rank him in the top 25 all time at 126lb. Also contenders like Sierra, Terranova, Compo, Bartolo were all dangerous top rated contenders.

Pedroza never came close to beating a great featherweight. Neither did Fenech at 126

 

I agree, even when they fought simular opponents Pep handled them easier ( i know of one fighter in particular that I thought beat Sandy and got stopped by Willie...Willie had some power but he was such a master and enjoyed his zone...guy fought 2-3 times a month and in the one fight that was not ULITMATE fighting Willie outclassed Sandy...when they got dirty, Willie got the worst of it but both men were great.

 

:rofl

 

exactly, thats what Suzy dont understands

im a huge Pep fan and agree with your statement

Again i agree completly his era was deep in terms of classes of fighters but at the very top level it was lacking but the 2nd and 3rd levels were very very deep.

And in the era we put him into there is alot of great FWs and many hold a stylistic advantage over Pep so it is entirly possible that he has atleast one loss even if it is against an opponent he would beat in a H2H match up or a FW he is greater than.

We can see form film Fenech is a good FW and we also see on film he has a style that can trouble Pep. You mentioned yourself the physical tools needed to beat Pep and jeff had 80% of them, surely you would agree if Pep was fighting on a high class regulary a Fenech loss is a possibleity as a freak loss like the Angott fight.

Styles make fights Suzy.

Saddler could well outclass Pedroza. But Pedroza could be hell for Pep. Obviously i odnt know enough about Eusebio to go in to detail though. But from what other posters have said he looks to be a bad stylistic match up for Pep.

Styles make fights. Norton beat Ali and dont tell me Norton is a top ten heavy. So Pedroza and fenech are bad stylistic match ups for Pep (just like Norton to Ali) so in all possibility they can get a win over Pep.

I agree there he was a big win for Pep

styles make fights

 

To be honest I'm a bit disgusted at how the Saddler-Pep fights turned out. I believe that with today's stricter refereeing, Pep would have won three out of four of them. Might sound outrageous to some but I truly believe this.

He did lead on the scorecards in the last two fights after all, but lost due to Saddler dislocating his arm/cutting his eye with headbutts, elbows & lacing.

Fenech might seem like a bad match-up for Pep on paper but then again Fenech never fought anybody like Pep either.

Has anyone here seen Pedroza's fight against Bernard Taylor?

It's a sure thing though that if Pep were to fight all the great featherweights of the 1980's and 1990's, he would end up having some losses on his record.

I think it's astonishing how many ranked contenders Pep fought during his time. Sure not all of them were great fighters but even a solid top 10 guy can upset a great fighter every once in a while if they fight every month. Pep was remarkably consistent, atleast until the plane crash and the tough Saddler fights.

 

It was a two-way street mate. Who knows how badly Pep would have been roughed up in the clinches if he wasn't doing things like lacing Saddler, trying to trip him over when they wrestled etc.

The last half, especially the last third of the fight, was always going to be Saddler's time to shine though. It's only rational that Pep would take a lead. The real test came when Pep was slowed down a little, and whether he could take Saddler's punishment.

That's true. He did face some movers (e.g. McRory, Payakaroon, Richardson) but none were close to what Pep would present.

Yeah just imagine Jermain Taylor vs. Cory Spinks but make it even MORE boring (I know that's hard to imagine).

Yeah seems a reasonable thought.

 

That was mostly in the fourth fight though, when Pep came out trying to take the fight to Saddler.

He was roughed up in the clinches anyway, with Saddler holding & hitting and even knocking him down once while doing this, but I feel that this would not happen with today's referees.

Agreed. I'm not going to say that Pep would have won those fights for sure but I feel he could have, since he was outboxing Saddler whenever he had the opportunity to use his feet and move.

I'm talking about Joe Cortez/Jay Nady type of refereeing where the clinches are broken up instantly and any intentional fouls are immediately penalized.

I don't think Saddler could have succeeded then, because he quite honestly did not really have any other way to fight.