The double standard Oscar at 147 but not Cotto

and yet you were absolutely sure that dlh was going to kill pac right? even going as far as to start a thread asking what pacfans will say after he loses right? wait what do you call all the things you enumerated? excuses.

 

you still haven't answered my question. again, if barrera was already past his prime in 2003, then what do you call the barrera whom jmm fought 4 years later and managed to KD him. some ppl here even say that barrera should've won that fight if not for the point deduction and the clear uncalled KD.

 

Yes I don't know why people think that 144 catch weight is somehow advantage for Pac. I mean Cotto was a healthy 146 against Clottey. 144 is not so hard for him. I don't like the catch weights but maybe for this fight is really more fair to do it on a catch weight. So this is the price to pay for a potentially great fight.

 

I agree, but no matter what you call it whether it be calling the shots or cherry picking it is what it is. Don't get me wrong, i pick pac to beat cotto at 140, 147, hell even 150, but the fact of the matter is, if he fights at 140 which is his best weight (even admitted by his own trainer) it is still draining cotto to basically nothing. 144 or 145 is PERFECT in all fairness, because those unknowns are now out the window. We know pac can perform at his level all the way up to 148 (granted oscar was drained) but i will give credit where it's do, and no matter how bad oscar looked, manny still looked as ruthless as ever. BUT this is cotto, and i dont think manny should fight him at 147 and i dont think cotto should take a fight at 140, especially cuz manny is 10x the fighter malignaggi is and cotto will be Hatton Flattened at that weight. 144, or 145, cotto doesn't lose his edge and pac doesnt lose his. I'm only talking fairness and cherry picking regardless of the outcome it is what it is. But no matter the weight like i said, i pick PAC

 

morales was the 130 champ when he first beat a coming-up in weight and somewhat green pac. morales was past his prime by the 2nd pac fight but no way shot. pac then was not yet as skilled as he is now.

barrera was taking on a coming up in weight, one-handed, some are calling one-dimensional fighter back then while he was still the 3rd best fighter p4p on the planet. barrera was coming just a year after beating the undefeated morales and two years after beating the undefeated hamed.

past his prime who had just beaten a WW contender in forbes and just have a close SD loss with the former p4p king.

exposed but recovered to beat collazo and lazcano. and even mayweather could not stop that weak chin exposed by collazo until the 10th round.

some scored it for jmm but it's the story when you have a close fight. it doesn't mean that jmm won it. it just means that filipino media are not biased unlike some whining fans here.

 

That's not true at all....in fact when PAC faced MAB and EM the first times he was the underdog. He didn't stand a chance. it was PAC whom was green, coming from a country without any soild boxing infrastructure and who was very one demensional. MAB, EM and JMM were considered bigger at the time, far more experienced and proven.

When PAC lost to EM, he had the rematch and dominated. EM had lost a RAZON thin decision to MAB and then completely outclassed by the very slick Raheem. Styles make fights and I'm sure EM underestimated Zahir. It happens. EM still came back to a higher wieght to beat (IMHO) Diaz at 135 after loosing to PAC 2 times. Yet a shot fighter moving up in weight against a champion doesn't win, nor make it a close fight.

My point is you can be "Past your physical Prime" and still be a MAJOR player i.e. Bernard Hopkins, if your skills are on point and the experience you've gained in BIG fights propel you to new levels! You can also be in your "OVERALL Prime" meaning you are right at your Physical PEAK and your skills, experince and level of opposition are all at a high level. I think PAC is there right now.

When he faced the 3 Mexican greats they may have been a bit past their physical primes but they were still THE BEST in their respective divisions at the time. Had PAC faught MAB, EM and JMM in their Physical Primes with less experience and less ring savvy whos to say PAC wouldn't have been facing a lesser version of the 3?

 

And you haven't answered my 5 questions. I asked first. I have my opinion on Barrera-Marquez, but answer my 5 questions.

 

:good I like the catch weight or at 147. At 140 I'm agreeing with you....I feel the fight won't be worth as much to PAC and moreso to the fans. We want a competive fight, we want excitement and drama and I think Cotto and PAC want the same. But their handlers are there looking out for the best interest of the fighter. Arum is kind of in a "conflict of interest" promoting both fighters. But I do agree with the "fairnees" piece. The same things were being said when the Hatton and DLH fights were proposed. That for "PAC" it was not fiar...too small, unproven at the higehr weights and too many unkowns. But I think PAC has proven some things in the past 18 months. So lets make the fight happen! Its a win, win for boxing fans.

 

past his prime who had just beaten a WW contender in forbes and just have a close SD loss with the former p4p king.

Just for Oscar man. I give Many credit he was a monster that night. But that wasn't Oscar that we know. Maybe he wasn't a lot worst from Oscar in the Floyd fight. But it wasn't Oscar that fought Mosley and Quary at WW.

 

ok,

1. nope, morales was not the same guy clearly. but was still better than 95% of those available for pac at that time

2. barerra was the king of the mountain at 126. it might not have been the the best shape he has ever been in but he was not shot. none of you would have said he was shot before the fight, if you can be true to yourself, you only convinced yourself he was shot after pac beat him to lessen the pain.

3. past-prime yes, weight-drained yes. and yes, pac had to go up to welter to fight him from 135. wasnt this a disadvatage for pac too? weight, i forgot i was talking to you uliuli, only pac's opponents' disadvatages count as real ones.

4. hatton has a weak chin because he was knocked out by the p4p #1 fighter at that time while fighting at welterweight. please. and if this was such a weak chin, why didnt collazo and lazcano finish him? why wasnt he defeated until he faced pbf?

5. even i scored it for jmm. 114-113. so what? it was a close fight. there were at least two rounds that could have gone either way. why take it against pacquiao? it should be a testament to jmm more than a jab at pacquiao

6. it is FILIPINO.

so if pac loses his next fight, and i'd say pac wasnt the same anymore because of the brutal fights with jmm and morales and others, you'd laugh at me and say i'm only making excuses right? the kind of excuses you are making right now

 

you didn't ask me those 5 questions in your reply to my post asking you my question. those 5 questions are your reply to another poster. but i think puga and underdog already answered them adequately.

again, how about answering my question.

 

at least the fight is getting made. people are putting to much emphasis to this catch weight when its clearly the fairest way for both, if the title is not on the line. i think people are jst making excuses for when pac wins. they screem 147 but dont think of the handicap pac has against a fighter weighing 160. delahoya was a one off because he was not prime and worth it, cotto is in prime.

 

All you *******s look the same. And adequately buahahahaha! He said Morales was a champ when Pac fought him, how!!! How can I take his post serious :roflatsch

 

1st I do not disrespect fighters or people who choose to post here. I never called Pac a punk or anything else. What I did was state a fact.


And no Pac does not call the shots the fact remains that without Mosely, Cotto, or Floyd Pac does not make any money worth talking about. And that includes a third fight with JMM.

As for the concession Shane was willing to make it is because he is in a three way race with Cotto and PBF to see who flattens the tires on the Pac bandwagon. Because, if Pac loses to either of them the money goes away. In fact, the best case scenario is Pac beats Mosely and Cotto then fights Floyd for a record breaking Pay day. then everyone gets paid.