Let's give Ruslan credit

Exactly. Going out on your shield is a choice. You can admire someone for making that choice, but to require them to? To question their manhood or their capability to lace up a pair of gloves when they're already a proven professional world title challenger...it's pedantic. It barely warrants being dignified with a response.

 

How about wording it correctly. Ever think of that?

(Chagaev to grandkids)

I was once fighting for the RING championship, but was in with a great fighter. A fighter who dominated me so badly that I was NEVER even IN the fight (much less have a grip on it so it can *slip away from me*) I fell against the ropes at the end of round nine, and had the round not ended, I would have surely been dropped, or seriously hurt. So I decided to not risk taking serious injury, as I was so defensless against such a powerful puncher who I just couldn't deal with.........at all. I was cut, bleeding, and taking a visious beating, the entire fight, and my defenses were all but gone at the end of round nine, and he was landing on me at will. So I thought it best to keep my health intact, and live to fight another day. No shame in knowing when you are outclassed and about to be serverly hurt.

THAT is being factual. Your *slipping away* from Chag implies that he once had a *grip* on the fight. He never did, at all.

 

Most of them didn't quit on their stools and when ODLH did against Pacquiao he got slated for it and a lot of people thought it took something out of his legacy. RJJ got loads of critcism just for putting in a safety first performance in the third Tarver fight and just trying to last the distance and avoid another KO instead of trying to win (people said he had no heart but Chagaev tonight was worse, more like he tried not to go the distance and get a stoppage on his record); people said it was time for Tyson to retire when he quit despite the fact he needed surgery on his knee after it.


Chagaev tonight quit in a more pussified way than any of them, he took the lowest point of any of their careers and put himself at a lower level without having reached the heights of any of them.

Shane Mosely took steroids, maybe in your mind if Chagaev done that it would make him as good a heavyweight as Mosely is a welterweight.:-(

 

No it doesn't it implies that his chances of winning were diminishing rapidly. At the start of the fight both fighters have a chance of winning and both can be viewed as 'having a grip' on it.

 

Why would he go on such a long winded rant to his grandkids?

Can't he just say "I was the HW champ, I lost the belt now get lost you little shits!"

That would make him 10x cooler.

 

It would help if one were to discern the actual point of a post before just deciding what it is and how it can work into a strawman counter argument. My point had nothing to do with whether or not any of those guys quit. The point was that a stoppage loss on your record is not the end of the world. Discretion is the better part of valor in some situations. That doesn't sit well with a lot of people who've got macho-fever, but you folks really need to grow up. My favorite fights ever are the Vazquez-Marquez trilogy - some of the bloodiest, most brutal affairs sanctioned since before I was born - and a part of me even wants to see a fourth despite the risk it poses to both guys - am I really a "pussified fan"? For realizing there are more important things than machismo, pride, and ego? For not criticizing those who accept the reality of their situation when it is truly hopeless and they don't even have the proverbial "puncher's chance"? For not shitting on a legendary warrior like Vazquez when he couldn't breathe and didn't continue? Okay, if that's the criteria, then I am a straight up, dripping, unshorn vagina.

 

:good

The rant was merely a factual account of what really happened which was meant to set Billy's nonsense straight.

 

Listen here's how it goes. If a fighter ultimately decides that for his best interest, he can't go on much longer and he chooses to pack it in for another day, we can't blame them. We're not rushing with the pain, we're not the ones getting punched in the face, we're not cut and so on and so forth. These guys have children and while the majority of them are warriors in the truest sense of the word, they're also humans. Sometimes that holds precedence over the fight or whatever title belt the guy at the moment has. Now does that always mean every fighter who gives in is right? I mean guys like James Leija and Camacho Jr did it over relatively minor cuts and they got their heap of scorn over it. That said we don't know how badly they're hurting. That's why when a fighter quits, as shitty as it may seem, we just have to accept it.

You can gain nothing from running down a fighter whose already had to deal with the shame of giving in.

 

I never used the phrase "pussified fan" so I don't know why you put it in quotes as though I had. The point I was making was that when any of the fighters you mentioned did quit they got labelled as pussies for doing it. In all their cases their losses are negatives in careers that had many positives but when any of them quit it had an adverse effect on their legacy in a way that getting stopped or KO'd didn't.

Don't get me wrong I understand the argument about saftety but ultimately boxing is a combat sport and you expect the competitors to have more of a fighting spirit than Chagaev showed tonight. If he decides that he doesn't want any more of it then it's up to him but I see no reason at all why he should be given credit as a boxer for it.

 

:good

It's pretty much you, I, and HRH drowning in a sea of Bud Light, chicken****, and meathead gymsock sweat in this thread. I'm going to grab a piece of splintered plywood and float ashore. That's right - I'm - *gasp* - quitting. :shock:

 

Yes.

Chagaev felt his legs going to mush in round nine as his head was getting hammered. It was not us who questioned if we could stand any more of that.........it was him, cause it was HIM who was falling into the ropes, HURT and ready to fall.

 

You didn't express that POV, it was Finito. I apologize for lumping you together as I was just complaining about people doing that previously. Your presentation of your stance has been far more convincing and cohesive than some of the meatheads that muck up this board (how many *****/quitter/etc threads are sprinkled over the last few pages? half dozen at least...probably a few more than some other boards admittedly, but a half dozen more than ideal). At the end of the day, we'll have to agree to disagree that there aren't circumstances where guys who get paid to exchange blows with another combatant can bow out gracefully and preserve their integrity. Chagaev showed spirit for the first 3-4 rounds. He squeaked in a few headshots here and there. It then became increasingly difficult to sustain his sporadic offense - the lands became fewer and further between, and he was being dissected with a pair of very heavy tweezers. His spirit was broken. That's his problem, his demon, and something legitimate for him to mull over - not whether or not people think he should have gone three more meaningless rounds.

 

No hard feelings, I agree that there are too many drama queens on these boards and it is difficult at times to seperate them from people who just have a different view to your own........I also get sick of everyone getting called 'nuthuggers' whenever they praise a fighter - if someone honestly thinks every fighter deserves nothing but abuse then there is something psychologically wrong with them.

We will just have to agree to disagree about Chagaev tonight, though I would say it was a very good performance by Wlad and even though I'm not normally his biggest fan I don't go for all this nonsense about it being a borefest tonight, and yes you can see how Chagaevs spirit could get broken tonight - though it's still not something I would praise him for.