A round of applause for the new lineal heavywheigt champion of the world

A round of applause for the man who single handedly cured insomnia :good

 

vitali wasnt lineal champ. He held the ring belt but thats something different. He didnt beat the lineal champ, Lewis. Wlad hasnt unified to become Undisputed which in the abscense of a lineal champ is what is required to create a lineage as THE man.


This is why Wlad still is not THE CHAMP

Vitali still has the stronger lineage as champion.

Vitali actuallty fought the last champ, Lewis, in Lewis`s last fight.

But apart from that, he fought for Lewis`s vacant title against Sanders [who was WBO champ]. Sanders had beaten Wladimir in his last fight and Vitali then beat Sanders. Vitali holds the lineage of victory over Wladimir through Wlads unavenged loss to Sanders. Vitali won Lewis`s retired belt and in reality the WBO belt since Sanders was only stripped of it for fighting for the WBC belt!

Vitali gained the Ring belt also which he never lost. He retired without losing his championship. When he returned from retirement he beat the holder of his belt to clear up any claim to his status.

Wlad gained his IBF belt from Byrd! Byrds claim to that belt was beating an undeserving 42 year old Holyfield for a VACANT paper title at the time that Lewis was THE CHAMPION, that belt did not make Byrd champion. Lewis was. Wlad also gained the paper and VACANT IBO title in this fight! All Wlads belts were Vacant titles with no lineage behind them greater than Vitali`s.

The WBO belt Wlad holds was won off Ibragimov in the worst fight in history, Ibragimov won the belt from a line that goes back to a VACANT championship fight for it which Wlad lost to Brewster after it was stripped from the holder, Sanders who ko`d Wlad for the WBO belt and then lost that lineage to Vitali.

THERFORE WE CAN CONCLUDE THAT THE LINEAGE OF CHAMPIONSHIPS RUN STRONGER THROUGH TO VITALI KLITSCHKO.
To summerise, Vitali holds this over Wlad,

Lewis`s retired title, WBC.
He never lost the Ring title.
Lineage of victory over Wlad.
Lineage of WBO title.

Plus who really thinks Wlad could beat Vitali?


He is not Undisputed champ, Vitali and Valuev still hold belts. To create a new lineage you need to be THE champ which means, Undisputed.

Beating the 3rd ranked contender [who is offically in recess] because you refuse to fight the number 2 ranked guy doesnt really make you champ in any case. No other champ in history has been given a free pass to duck the next best guy in the division!

Chagaevs ranking was questionable, he has been out for a long time after beating Skelton and since then has fought some unknown guy called drummond to a decision! He was ruled medically unfit due to hepatitis. Wlad even took an injection to protect himself from the disease which confirms he fought a sick man.

 

The lengths that some of you jokes to go in order to discredit Wlad are just ****in' hilarious.:rofl

 

Champion Reign
John L. Sullivan 1885-1892
James J. Corbett 1892-1897
Bob Fitzsimmons -1899
James J. Jeffries 1899-1905, retired
Marvin Hart 1905-1906
Tommy Burns 1906-1908
Jack Johnson 1908-1915
Jess Willard 1915-1919
Jack Dempsey 1919-1926
Gene Tunney 1926-1928, retired
Max Schmeling 1930-1932
Jack Sharkey 1932-1933
Primo Carnera 1933-1934
Max Baer 1934-1935
James J. Braddock 1935-1937
Joe Louis 1937-1949
Ezzard Charles 1949-1951
"Jersey" Joe Walcott 1951-1952
Rocky Marciano 1952-1956, retired
Floyd Patterson 1956-1959
Ingemar Johansson 1959-1960
Floyd Patterson 1960-1962
Charles "Sonny" Liston 1962-1964
Cassius Clay 1964-1970
Joe Frazier 1970-1973
George Foreman.1973-1974
Muhammad Ali1974-1978
Leon Spinks 1978
Muhammad Ali 1978-1980
Larry Holmes 1980-1985
Michael Spinks 1985-1988
Mike Tyson 1988-1990
James "Buster" Douglas 1990
Evander Holyfield 1990-1992
Riddick Bowe 1992-1993
Evander Holyfield 1993-1994
Michael Moorer 1994
George Foreman 1994-1997
Shannon Briggs 1997-1998
Lennox Lewis 1998-2001
Hasim Rahman 2001
Lennox Lewis 2001-2004, Retires

If Vitali was Lineal in 2004 then he is still lineal today, he hasnt been beaten.

 

Who is discrediting him? Crowning him as linear champion requires a laughably lax interpretation of lineage. Asserting otherwise does not discredit him in the slightest.

 

until Wlad vs Vitali happens this division has no true champion

 

Honestly... why would anyone give a **** about something as ******ed as lineage? Larry Holmes picked it up by beating a corpse in Ali. That is supposed to mean something? The only thing that matters is who is the best in the world. Who BY RECENT ACCOMPLISHMENTS... deserves to be recognized as the True Champion of the division. It's Wladimir Klitschko... and it isn't even close. To keep arguing against it at this point shows nothing but pure ignorance and hatred. It's morons like you guys who give legitimacy to the corrupt organizations that hold the fighters and divisions hostage.

 

Yeah... because Vitali has accomplished so much in the last 5 years.:rofl

 

You've already posted three times in this thread on the subject and got sniffy when people suggested that beating Chagaev doesn't make Wlad linear champion...:think

 

Vitali still has the stronger lineage as champion.

Vitali actuallty fought the last champ, Lewis, in Lewis`s last fight which Widow_maker thinks Vitali won! But at least he was in there withe him and everyone recognised he was the next best guy.

But apart from that, he fought for Lewis`s vacant title against Sanders [who was WBO champ]. Sanders had beaten Wladimir in his last fight and Vitali then beat Sanders. Vitali holds the lineage of victory over Wladimir through Wlads unavenged loss to Sanders. Vitali won Lewis`s retired belt and in reality the WBO belt since Sanders was only stripped of it for fighting for the WBC belt!

Vitali gained the Ring belt also which he never lost. He retired without losing his championship. When he returned from retirement he beat the holder of his belt to clear up any claim to his status.

Wlad gained his IBF belt from Byrd! Byrds claim to that belt was beating an undeserving 42 year old Holyfield for a VACANT paper title at the time that Lewis was THE CHAMPION, that belt did not make Byrd champion. Lewis was. Wlad also gained the paper and VACANT IBO title in this fight! All Wlads belts were Vacant titles with no lineage behind them greater than Vitali`s.

The WBO belt Wlad holds was won off Ibragimov in the worst fight in history, Ibragimov won the belt from a line that goes back to a VACANT championship fight for it which Wlad lost to Brewster after it was stripped from the holder, Sanders who ko`d Wlad for the WBO belt and then lost that lineage to Vitali.

THERFORE WE CAN CONCLUDE THAT THE LINEAGE OF CHAMPIONSHIPS RUN STRONGER THROUGH TO VITALI KLITSCHKO.
To summerise, Vitali holds this over Wlad,

Lewis`s retired title, WBC.
He never lost the Ring title.
Lineage of victory over Wlad.
Lineage of WBO title.

Plus who really thinks Wlad could beat Vitali?

 

You have to have a mechanism for re-crowning a lineal heavyweight champion otherwise technically the lineage stops at Tunney and then again at Marciano. It has just been unprecedented to have two lineal heavyweight champions retire within a couple of years each other without losing the title in the ring.

 

Of course you do.

Some people see an objective test and consider unification of the main titles to be that mechanism. We know that hasn't happened.

Some people consider the matter in a more subjective way and see a meeting between the number one and number two fighters in the division as the necessary mechanism. Did you consider Chagaev one of the division's top two going into the fight?

Or are you proposing a new 'mechanism'? Bloke who you want to crown vs any top five random?

 

Nope. Vitali gets called lineal champ due to holding the Ring belt. Just as erroneous a description a syou are giving Wlad for holding the Ring.
Vitali became champ by beating Sanders for Lewis`s vacant title after sanders beat Wlad! Peter didnt hold the title when he faced Wlad but had won it afterwards, Wlad then won it back even though he had never actually lost it any way.

You mention Chagaev beating Valuev. Valuev got his belt from Ruiz, a guy nobody recognised as champ. Ruiz got his belt as a vacant interim title.
Chagaev was ranked 3rd, Vitali ranked 2nd. Wlad is ducking the 2nd ranked fighter.

 

Without jumping too heavily into the discussion, it just needs to be pointed out that LOSING to the Lineal Champion does NOT add to an argument for a fighter to then become the Lineal Champion. Losing does not add to resume credentials in these matters.