Ring P4P Top 10 vs. Beltholders & Fellow P4P

This list gives the current Ring P4P Top 10 vs. former or current beltholders (Ring/WBC/WBA/IBF/WBO).

Then, the underlined names indicate fighters who were Ring Top 10 P4P WHEN they fought.

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Sasakul, Ledwaba, J.E. Julio, Barrera 1, Morales 2, Morales 3, Larios, Barrera 2, J.M. Marquez 2, D. Diaz, De La Hoya, Hatton

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Singsurat, Morales 1

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A. Sanchez, J.M. Marquez 1

*If Jorge Solis wins on July 11, it would make Pacquiao 13-2-2 vs. beltholders.

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Peden, Medina, Gainer, Barrera, Casamayor, Juan Diaz

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Norwood, John, Pacquiao 2

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Pacquiao 1

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J.D. Jackson, G. Johnson, S. Brown, Holmes, Trinidad, Daniels, Joppy, De La Hoya, Tarver, Wright, Pavlik

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R. Jones, Taylor 1, Taylor 2, Calzaghe

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Holiday, J.J. Molina, Leija, De La Hoya 1, De La Hoya 2, Vargas 1, Vargas 2, Collazo, Mayorga, Margarito

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Forrest 1, Forrest 2, Wright 1, Wright 2, Cotto

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Larios 1, J.E. Julio, Larios 3, I. Hernandez, J. Gonzalez, R. Marquez 2, R. Marquez 3

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Larios 2, R. Marquez 1

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M. Johnson 1, M. Johnson 2, Austin, Pastrana 1, Pastrana 2, I. Vazquez 1

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I. Vazquez 2, I. Vazquez 3

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Darchinyan

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Pacheco, Kirilov, Mijares, Arce

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Donaire

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Bazan, Maussa, N'Dou, Bailey, Corley, Torres, Malignaggi, Quintana, Judah, Mosley, Clottey

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Margarito

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Ponce De Leon, Sithchatchawal, Pastrana, Parra, Molitor

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I agree. Caballero shouldn't be in there at all.

Wlad, Williams, or Calderon would make a better #10.

Like it or not, Wlad has cleaned out the division in its sorry state (w/ the exception of his bro, who he won't fight). Not his fault there aren't any super heavies around to move up and fight.

Williams has wins over Margarito and Wright propped up by solid victories over Verno Phillips, Mitchell, and Quintana.

Calderon, despite the recent technical draw, was the man at 105 and now is lineal at 108, beating a solid fighter in Cazares twice in the process. He also holds wins over Dieppa (at one point the #2 light fly) and former 105 beltholder Daniel Reyes.

 

The point I'm trying to make with this list is that while some resumes look nice, upon closer inspection, look at who they fought at what point of their careers.

In other words, I think beating someone when they are in the Top 10 P4P = indisputable quality win.

Not to say that the wins over beltholders isn't an accomplishment, it's just that some of those wins came under suspect circumstances.

Examples of suspect wins over beltholders:

Pacquiao has a W over former super bantam champ Larios who moved up two weight classes to fight Manny. Jorge Eliecer Julio was a marginal champ at bantam years before he stepped up to 122 to fight for Pacquiao's IBF belt at the time.

Cotto has scored the scalps of 11 beltholders, but how many were marginal champs? The names of Maussa, N'Dou, Bailey, and Corley (among others) come to mind.

Donaire has a win over Vic, and while it turned out to be a quality win as VD is in the Top 10 today, if Vic had retired or lost his next fights, do you think Donaire's win would be appraised as highly as it is now?


Furthermore, what about a resume full of names but not as many real high-quality wins when you break down the resume fight by fight? Basically, how did they do in fights against real P4P competition within the context of the time of the fight...a.k.a. performance in superfights. Examples:

JMM is 6-3-1 against beltholders, but how many were real threats in the sense that they were elite at the time of the fight? Elite = P4P Top 10 in my opinion. JMM is only 1-1-1 in this area.

Donaire again. However, as one could argue for JMM, is it his fault for the quality of his competition, or poor management/being ducked?

Caballero has had zero super fights, much less any real threats to his belts. And yet he sneaks into the Top 10 best fighters in the sport?

 

You're right, and I was just about to correct that. :good

DONE.

 

Evil Rich, I got you my man. I'm waiting for Floyd to fight again so I can put him back in the Top 10. But here you go:

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G. Hernandez*, Corrales, C. Hernandez, J. Chavez, J.L. Castillo 1, J.L. Castillo 2, Corley, Gatti, Mitchell, Judah, Baldomir, De La Hoya, Hatton

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I'm not sure if Chicanito Hernandez was P4P at the time, but I'm pretty sure he was since he defended that 130-lbs. title numerous times (over Nelson among others) and only lost once moving up in weight to fight DLH. I'm gonna dig up my old Ring Magazines, but I'm pretty solid about remembering his name on the list at the time.

 

You are correct about Pac-EM III. About Pac-MAB II, I will look it up. If anyone wants to help, it would be cool too.

Pac-MAB II was in Oct. 2007.