Ring P4P Top 10 vs. Beltholders & Fellow P4P

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Sweet Pea Pacquiao, Jun 22, 2009.


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  1. 8count

    8count sidekick Full Member

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    Jun 5, 2009
    Great way to look at a resume. Thread is a good reference.
     
    8count, Jun 22, 2009
    8count, Jun 22, 2009
    #16
  2. Sweet Pea Pacquiao

    Sweet Pea Pacquiao Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thanks man. Oh, and Chert, I looked it up. Barrera, coming off a close decision loss to Marquez, was still #9 before fighting Pacquiao the second time. It's corrected in the original post.
     
    Sweet Pea Pacquiao, Jun 22, 2009
    Sweet Pea Pacquiao, Jun 22, 2009
    #17
  3. Sweet Pea Pacquiao

    Sweet Pea Pacquiao Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I figure to keep this updated whenever there is movement on the list or if one of the Top 10 adds to their resume. Keep me posted on any mistakes you see!

    Another reason why I made this list is that I'm tired of posters talking out of their asses without FACTS. There is no biased opinion on the CONTENTS of my list. Only facts. Whether or not you disagree with what the list MEANS is up to you. But as far as who beat who when they beat them, I think the list is a pretty valid reference for future debates/discussion.
     
    Sweet Pea Pacquiao, Jun 22, 2009
    Sweet Pea Pacquiao, Jun 22, 2009
    #18
  4. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nov 20, 2007
    Is this you own research? That's quality job, man! :thumbsup

    U sure Barrera was a P4P-er in the 2nd, Morales in the 3rd Pac fight?

    This list shows boxers vs. top elite opposition very well. Donaire and Caballero are the weakest links, their presence and Williams not being on the list is criminal. Adamek, John or Montiel could make a more valid point being there than these two and even Hasegawa can say 'what about me'? The Ring has a horrible P4P list currently.

    You could make an upgrade and use Italic to show which boxer fought a REIGNING world champion (with vacated titles like Clottey's or Malignaggi's counting since they never lost it in the ring just dropped for the big fight). Also you could mark fights of the last 18-24 months or fights since 1 Jan 2008, showing the recent performances.


    Oh yeah, change that stupid blue to the original white, almost impossible to read it in that color!
     
    BigBone, Jun 22, 2009
    BigBone, Jun 22, 2009
    #19
  5. general

    general UNDISPUTED Full Member

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    Oct 24, 2007
    Nice list. :good
     
    general, Jun 22, 2009
    general, Jun 22, 2009
    #20
  6. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

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    I'm lovin' the concept man, keep up the good work. :thumbsup

    If you ever get the chance, I'd like to see how the three recently retired (and one just unretired) P4P fighters stack up- De la Hoya, Mayweather, and Calzaghe.

    Edit: Nevermind on Floyd, I see you got him already.
     
    Rock0052, Jun 22, 2009
    Rock0052, Jun 22, 2009
    #21
  7. ali's jockstrap

    ali's jockstrap Member Full Member

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    Nov 24, 2008
    looking at hopkins resume although it is long and exhaustive most of his big wins have came against smaller fighters moving up at least 1 and in some cases 2 weight divisions in order to fight him. de la hoya, trinidad, wright, pavlik, the only p4p win on his resume that didint move up was tarver......something to think about? if you look at his losses they all seem to be fighters that were comfortable at the weight they were fighting at what do u think guys? do u think he has been carefully matched?
     
    ali's jockstrap, Jun 22, 2009
    ali's jockstrap, Jun 22, 2009
    #22
  8. Sweet Pea Pacquiao

    Sweet Pea Pacquiao Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Aug 25, 2004
    Yes, Morales and Barrera were both #9 at the time of their respective FINAL fights with Pacquiao.

    Clottey I forgot to count. Malignaggi's already there.

    If I had time to mark recent fights I would. I tried to put them in order so one could put the pieces together, since anyone following boxing seriously would be able to remember when the big fights occurred.

    About changing the color, I will go with light blue instead. But you're wrong hating on my regular blue. Maybe tough to read but not stupid at all!
     
    Sweet Pea Pacquiao, Jun 22, 2009
    Sweet Pea Pacquiao, Jun 22, 2009
    #23
  9. Evil Rich

    Evil Rich Tweety is PISSED off! Full Member

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    May 13, 2009
    Thanks mate, surprising that not many of his opponents were in the p4p top 10 at the time of fighting him. Looking back though I can see why they weren't at the time for some of them. Great thread, I wish there was a list like this for every boxer out there (yes I'm aware of Boxrec), that gave out the stats of world title fights and fighting people in the p4p top 10 like this.

    :happy
     
    Evil Rich, Jun 22, 2009
    Evil Rich, Jun 22, 2009
    #24
  10. Sweet Pea Pacquiao

    Sweet Pea Pacquiao Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Again, the contents of the list are objective. Our opinions on what we construct on the value of the list are our own.

    But to answer your question about B-Hop...

    Yes and no. Here's the NO argument:

    1. People forget that Trinidad was a FAVORITE over Hopkins after destroying Joppy, a full-fledged middleweight champ to take away his WBA belt. Then when B-Hop destroyed him, only the haters detracted. Hopkins deserves FULL CREDIT for that win.

    2. Same with his win over Tarver. Hopkins was the underdog moving up 15 pounds and two weight classes (and to rub it in the eyes of the haters even worse, no catchweight).


    Now on the other hand, here's the YES argument:

    De La Hoya, Wright, and even Pavlik were valid examples of Hopkins fighting guys who displayed that they were over their heads moving up in weight, especially since:

    1. DLH only fought once at middle, and unlike Tito vs. Joppy, should've lost to Sturm. The precedent of Oscar not being a viable middleweight had been set before the Hopkins fight.

    2. Wright hadn't even fought once at light heavy, much less super middle. He was making Winky do what Tarver did to him, except Hopkins at least offered a catchweight.

    3. Pavlik was in the same boat as Wright, out of his league at a weight he could not carry, catchweight or no catchweight. Funny how we deride one fighter for negotiating for a catchweight which will still be disadvantageous to him, and yet on the other hand, give credit to another for doing it even though the fighter was dominated in a losing fashion.
     
    Sweet Pea Pacquiao, Jun 22, 2009
    Sweet Pea Pacquiao, Jun 22, 2009
    #25
  11. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Okay, allow me please: Italic: reigning champions. 2008-09: Wins and losses in that period.

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    Sasakul, Ledwaba, J.E. Julio, Barrera 1, Morales 2, Morales 3, Larios, Barrera 2,
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    J.M. Marquez 2, D. Diaz, De La Hoya, Hatton
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    Singsurat, Morales 1
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    A. Sanchez, J.M. Marquez 1

    *If Jorge Solis wins on July 11, it would make Pacquiao 13-2-2 vs. beltholders.
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    Peden, Medina, Gainer, Barrera,
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    Casamayor, Juan Diaz
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    Norwood, John,
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    Pacquiao 2
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    Pacquiao 1
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    J.D. Jackson, G. Johnson, S. Brown, Holmes, Trinidad, Daniels, Joppy, De La Hoya, Tarver, Wright,
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    Pavlik
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    R. Jones, Taylor 1, Taylor 2,
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    Calzaghe
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    Holiday, J.J. Molina, Leija, De La Hoya 1, De La Hoya 2, Vargas 1, Vargas 2, Collazo,
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    Mayorga, Margarito
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    Forrest 1, Forrest 2, Wright 1, Wright 2, Cotto
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    Larios 1, J.E. Julio, Larios 3, I. Hernandez, J. Gonzalez, R. Marquez 2,
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    Larios 2, R. Marquez 1
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    M. Johnson 1, M. Johnson 2, Austin, Pastrana 1, Pastrana 2, I. Vazquez 1
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    Darchinyan
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    Pacheco, + Burgos, + Sinwangcha,
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    Kirilov, Mijares, Arce
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    Donaire
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    Bazan, Maussa, N'Dou, Bailey, Corley, Torres, Malignaggi, Quintana, Judah,
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    Margarito
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    BigBone, Jun 22, 2009
    BigBone, Jun 22, 2009
    #26
  12. ali's jockstrap

    ali's jockstrap Member Full Member

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    yep i agree just never really looked at hopkins list of opponents in that way before the list helps you gauge his level of opponents! i do however think some of the names on hopkins resume are more impressive than the wins (if thats makes sense)
     
    ali's jockstrap, Jun 22, 2009
    ali's jockstrap, Jun 22, 2009
    #27
  13. VARG

    VARG Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Oct 30, 2008
    Well I think some of the problems when looking at this. Is the idea of p4p.

    There are HUNDREDS of good to great fighters...but ONLY 10 make it on this list. Most of them being scattered around different divisions. Most p4p fighters only want to fight people who bring more money or OTHER p4p fighters...so people who dont make it on the list because they havent fought "p4p material" are left out in the cold.

    So sure...you can **** on Cotto's resume, or Floyd's, or B-Hops...but in all reality, most divisions aren't swimming in top 10 material. So scalping ANY sort of win against a p4p fighter is something worth noting.

    This is STILL a good way to put perspective on things regardless, but shouldnt be seen as how good or deep someone's resume is.

    Because I assure you wins over Clottey or Corrales or any other "marginal" champs would go overlooked.
     
    VARG, Jun 22, 2009
    VARG, Jun 22, 2009
    #28
  14. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No it doesn't. His performances are WAAAAY more impressive than his resume would suggest. The resume doesn't tell you that Hopkins was the:

    -Only one to stop then-unbeaten Johnson, total domination
    -Beat undefeated Tito, only one to stop him, total domination
    -Only one to knock out (finish fight with a punch) De La Hoya
    -Weighed in just 2 pounds over the LMW limit for DLH, it's a legit win
    -Only one to totally dominate an on-top Antonio Tarver
    -Beat undefeated Pavlik, total domination
    -Debated losses only since Jones (Taylor I, Taylor II, Calzaghe)
    -Fought Eastman, Taylor, Taylor, Tarver, Wright, Calzaghe and Pavlik 40+
     
    BigBone, Jun 22, 2009
    BigBone, Jun 22, 2009
    #29
  15. Sweet Pea Pacquiao

    Sweet Pea Pacquiao Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ask and you shall receive. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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    G. Hernandez, Corrales, C. Hernandez, J. Chavez, J.L. Castillo 1, J.L. Castillo 2, Corley, Gatti, Mitchell, Judah, Baldomir, De La Hoya, Hatton
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    Dorsey, Bredahl, Paez, J.J. Molina, Ruelas, G. Hernandez, J.C. Chavez 1, M.A. Gonzalez, Whitaker, Camacho, J.C. Chavez 2, Quartey, Gatti, Castillejo, Vargas, Campas, Sturm, Mayorga, Forbes
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    Trinidad, Mosley 1, Mosley 2, Hopkins, Mayweather, Pacquiao
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    *NOTE: De La Hoya fought Hopkins at a catchweight of 155. No one blasted him for that move, even in the event that he pulled the upset.


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    Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Brewer, Mitchell, Lacy, Kessler, Hopkins, R. Jones
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    Sweet Pea Pacquiao, Jun 22, 2009
    Sweet Pea Pacquiao, Jun 22, 2009
    #30
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