Wladamir Klitschko is the new heavyweight king (long overdue)

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by janitor, Jun 20, 2009.


  1. kmcc505

    kmcc505 Sweet Scientist Full Member

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    Why do you hate Vitali so much? Vitali NEVER got "stopped" in the traditional sense. He lost because he tore ligaments in his shoulder (a fight he was dominating) and on cuts (a fight we was also winning).

    Explain.

    And please don't think I'm attacking you. I acually enjoy your opinions and consider you one of the best posters here. I just don't get you Wlad love/Vitali hate. It makes no sense to me.
     
  2. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Vitaly was unlucky vs Lewis, he showed alot of guts.
     
  3. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    I dont like the man because

    A. He tested positive for steroids banning him from the olympics

    B. He has pulled out of more fights at the last minute than anybody i know

    C. He IMO pulled one of the most cowardly acts in boxing history in the 10th round vs Chris Byrd

    D. I dont like his laxidsacical style, I think he has alot more flaws and lack of tools than his brother, yet people talk like vitali is the clear better brother.

    E. Weak Resume- People talk of him as some kind of all time great heavyweight yet the best fighter he has ever beaten is a 2nd rate tub of lard Sam Peter. IMO the man is unproven vs top opposition. If he beats a few of the following Haye, Potvekin, Dimitrenko, Boystov and Arreola I will grant him alot more respect.

    perhaps...But Cuts and Retireman on the stool is part of the game. Vitali got his face nearly torn off by Lennox Lewis. That was not a game lennox lewis in there. That was a 37 year old out of shape inactive Lewis who was riped to be taken and Vitali got his face damm near torn off.

    Thanx you I respect you and your opinion a whole lot too.



    Let me clarify...Vitali too me is still unproven. He has alot to show me. Lucky hes still activley fighting so he still has a chance to move up on my list.
     
  4. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Lewis was not himself that night. He was 37, showed up a soft 256lb, and was coming off a long layoff....I think he was riped for the taking that night...and Vitali failing to get the job done he has no one to blame but himself. He got his face torn off fair and square because his defense was subpar....Next time he should keep his left gaurd higher and that wouldnt have happened.
     
  5. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Oh please. You know damn well that welterweights are far above heavyweights in terms of skill, punch output... and actually, every aspect in a pound for pound sense, except for power.

    Again, i'm not saying Wlad is a "complete boxer", i'm saying he is very skilled at what he does and very hard to beat. Ali was by no means a complete boxer as he had no inside game either, but he was very hard to beat nonetheless. I will drop the pompoms if you drop your hatchet.



    And then what? You will feel vindicated? Where did i say Wlad cannot lose? I readily admit that he has a weak jaw and may well get stopped in his next bout, as any boxer can, especially at heavyweight. If anything, the fact that no one has thoroughly been able to reach his chin the last five years, is a statement about his skill level. Surely you can admit that, or will you pretend he has an iron chin?

    Ali lost to a glass jawed Norton, Holmes lost to a blown up lightheavy, Liston quit on his stool like a big, bad, unbeatable bear, after 6 light rounds, just like Duran. Did that "expose" them as something far less than great?


    If what Wlad does is so easy and takes so little skill, then i'm sure you can name me 20 heavyweights that repeated the dominance he established lately.

    At least answer me this question: if he's no technician, then why is his jab already regarded as up there with the best ever? Why was only Holmes more dominant behind the jab? Where are all these superior technicians that had better jabs?
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol: wtf

    I think a fighter can be technically excellent in a given department without neccesarily being regarded as a technician...i do feel uncertain about labelling a fighter "technician" when his solution to the inside problem is to grab and wait. However, this is a semantics problem, basically, so I'll leave you boys to it.
     
  7. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Excuse me. Edited.


    I'm not sure if i wouldn't label him a technician, but SH is arguing that Wlad is not a good technician, and that's where i have a problem. I'm not saying he's a complete fighter, but what he does, he does very much correct, especially for a heavyweight..... nevermind for a heavyweight his size.
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol::lol:





    Right, I'd agree with that, he displays technical excellence in 99% of what he does. He's technically lacking at all other ranges currently though, obviously.

    I had high hopes for Chagaev in rounds one and two. I loved the distance he was fighting at, one step from a range Wlad wasn't confortable with. He just couldn't get any purchase going forwards - Wlad was to tall more than anything else. He fights tall so beautifully though.
     
  9. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    I actually thought that Chagaev's pressure might pay off, mid-late round 6 when Wlad did little. I thought he might not be able to keep his efficiency up, but he showed otherwise and in fact looked like he could keep this pace up for a strong 15.


    By the way, other posters suggested Chagaev had no chance because he's not a big puncher. I disagree. And this is hindsight knowledge of course, but the reason he could do so little is because of lack of footspeed. He just couldn't close the gap, no matter what he tried or how much upper body movement he used. The interesting thing is his trainer said they specifically trained for speed, even for Valuev who was the original opponent. His light weight attests to this.
     
  10. JimmyShimmy

    JimmyShimmy 1050 psi Full Member

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    Nah man, I'm with stonehands all the way.

    Wlad is, it has to be said, ****ING DIRE, and no, he is not particularly skilled. His actual 'skill set' is very limited. The word 'skill' does not derive around poking the opponent with a jab. Wlad never, EVER, follows up with his advantages and the opponents are so ****ing incompetent that they never have the balls to reply - you can't be afraid to get hit and be termed 'Top opposition'.

    Half a jab, Half a jab, Half a jab, Half a jab, Half a jab, a right hand annnnnd repeat. I feel sorry for the crowd.

    It is jab and grab all the way. It's not nice, it's not skilful and no ****ing way would wlad control anyone who you consider a 'great' heavyweight with that style. They would actually hit him back! I know, crazy thought eh?

    People talk about the early 30’s being a weak era……Not one meaningful fight has happened since Lewis/Vitali – and that only seemed important because a poor version of Lewis made Vitali look lively. It’s one big joke.

    Ok, so there's a little venom in that one, but I could say with 100% clarity that what I have just said is 98% true.
     
  11. kolcade4

    kolcade4 Keep Punchin' Full Member

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    i truly was putting on the pom poms for ruslan, but to see the outcome of the fight was sickening. i did not expect him to win but i was hoping that he would have put up more of a fight than he did. he just stood there right in front of wlad and let him tee off. i blame it on his trainers as well as himself not being smart enough to move to his right. there was a couple of times that he did very briefly during the fight and disrupted wlad's attack. he seemed like he broke wlad's defenses when he did this. if ruslan steps to the right it would for one moved him out of the way of wlad's right hand and 2 would've allowed ruslan to throw right hooks to the body and head of wlad and making wlad adjust. ruslan then would maybe be able to work in the left hand. that was the best hope for ruslan to even have a chance. although the height and reach differentials made it look like little mac vs. mike tyson. the jab proved extremly effective for wlad and probably could have beat ruslan with his left hand by itself. the punch totals were lopsided im sure. the only thing i saw good for ruslan is that he allowed himself not to be knocked out but at the same time i don't think wlad had any intention to do so anyway. i think wlad was going to be happy coasting to a unanimous dec.
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I got very excited in 5 and 6 when Wlad was suddenly wearing his right hand lower and seemed to have his mouth open a bit. But he did what all great, great generals do, controlled the pace, took a rest as you've described, and then went back to serious work in round 8. Chagaev landed his best punch of the fight late, after the bell in 7, do you think Wlad wanted to punish him for that?

    I agree with you that footspeed was a crucial factor. It was sorry to watch Rusland chasing Wlad back, Wlad never looked out of control aside from that spastic slip he did, I think in round six. You can see the idea of being countered alarms him.
     
  13. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Yep, if his chin really was that bad, it should've at least wobbled him. I don't think he wanted to punish him from a personal perspective, but he did come out very quick, perhaps to (re)establish who is boss. But purely from a strategic standpoint, not a personal one. The last years, he's as cold as Monzon in executing a gameplan.
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Haye seems to be changing all of that. Unless he can execute his plan to thrash Haye for 11 rounds before stopping him in the 12th with cold certainty...that really would be something else. I would almost like to see it, assuming Haye's health wasn't in danger in a long-term sense.
     
  15. punchy

    punchy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Lets face it Haye wants Vitali not Wladimir, Wladimir is the superior fighter at the moment.