How Many Hall Of Famers Have The Klitsckos Combined To Fight?

That's a lie.

Being American and having the media hype the fighters you face is huge in recognition.

That's part of becoming great. Name recognition. Him being american isn't the only thing but its part of it.

Lennox became great because of two names. Holyfield and Tyson without those 2 Lennox doesn't break the top 10. Both were past it when he fought them but it's still great to have those names.

 

I agree with you there, an enertaining personality will almost get you as far as your talent in the ring, and if you have both, like Tyson and Ali. You will become a legend, a fighter people will remember for 100's of years. Not trying to sound like an *******, I think it's a safe bet most people will forget about the Klits in another 20 or 30 years, they just dont have that "It" factor needed to make them a household name. Haye is the only heavyweight now that I think can be a household and get people's attention back to the Heavyweight division again. He already has people talking about him, some good things, some bad things. Though at the end of the day, the haters are going to watch him to see him get knocked out and so are his fans, the man cant lose if he plays his cards right.

 

Most likely they will not be remembered like the other fighters will be.

Wlad is unlucky because he doesn't have a reigning HOFer fighting.

If Tyson came back won a fight, then fought and lost to Wlad. That would do so much for Wlad you would have no idea..

He has a chance if he continues to defend his title for awhile but we will have to wait and see.

 

Another thing Wlad could do is lose to Povetkin, let Povetkin reign a little bit and then come back after beating some contenders and beat him twice in a row. That would help a lot.

Because someone beating Wlad is big, Wlad beating that someone isn't as big.

 

A lie? That doesn't even make any sense.

Hype can get people to watch but it won't make you "great". In the end it isn't the publicity but the performance. All the hype in the world isn't gonna fool anyone into believing that the bums in the heavyweight division are "great". If I bring 6' 6" Kobe Bryant down to the gym and have him play one on one with a 20 year old who is 6'1" and Kobe schools him that isn't a surprise and it isn't impressive. Fewer and fewer people will tune in to see that.

Americans know there are great large athletes as they are watched all the time. All can surely recognize that the current heavyweight division is made up of out of shape bums.

Lennox didn't become "great" because he fought Holyfield and Tyson. He was always great. He was respected and became known to those who weren't aware of him for performing at the highest level repeatedly against top level comp and when it counted against Holyfield and Tyson (who I agree were not at their best anymore).

If we put Tyson, Holyfield or Lewis in with the bums Wlad is fighting they would be destroying them far more definitively than the reluctant, careful, timid, boring exhibitions Wlad is providing.

Wlad isn't doing well over here (in terms of generating fans and respect) because he isn't impressive. There is no mystery and it has nothing to do with the color of his skin or his country of origin. There is no hidden agenda to minimize their success or popularity. Fans have seen GREAT athletes for a long time in America. They know great performances and they recognize mediocre ones against mediocre opponents.

 

That was the worst example I've ever heard.

Part of the division is. KLitschkos, Irag, Chageav, Povetkin, Haye, are all in shape but none are american

Lewis didn't become great because of Holyfield but he got a huge boost in greatness by beating Tyson. And by having Holyfield who also beat Tyson on his resume is huge. That only added to his aura of greatness. Because they were two very hyped fighters.

See. They take them out faster and that earns them hype, having hype adds to greatness.

It's not about him being impressive. He is very impressive. He's not Tyson, thats why he's not seen the same way.

You also act like its Wlads fault for the level of competition he's dealt. Wlad is dominating what is the heavyweight division.

If Ali was alive him beating the same fighters would be greater because Ali could hype the fight up.

Ali wouldn't be where he is on All time list if he didn't talk **** on a daily basis.

 

yup

 

right same with Pac

if he has struggled with DLH and Hatton and then won, Floyd fans would give him more props and say, well, Pac is good but Floyd is great look what he did to them, instead, since Pac did so much better against both, they have to go another direction with it.

 

I think wlad and vitali will look back at their carers 20 years from now and will say "there is something missing"......they are being text book boxers 101 doing whatever it takes to win, even if its in boring fashion, and could careless about fame and fortune, to me that shows there class act men, but it wont get them a legacy......i think historians will say in some ways what a waste of talent, even though they didnt really waste it, but the general hardcore boxing fans and historians will see them as a "waste" of raw talent.....which is kinda sad in away.....thats just IMO though

 

Talking about greatness not comparing wins.


What Pac did to Hatton was amazing. The only difference is styles make fights and Floyd isn't a going forward fighter like Pac. That's not knocking Pacs win over Hatton at all.

As for DLH... come on he weighed less than pac on fight night.. a good win but not great.

 

Surely you've read far, far worse .. don't your proofread your own stuff?

Iggy, Chag, and Pov are in shape to the level of the soft and puffy. In the NFL there are hundreds of athletes (out of 1,696) with the same and better size as the Klits who are in TOP CONDITION not like a Ruslan "I train hard but I eat donuts while in camp" Chagaev with his obvious physical limitations.

What the **** are you talking about? Tyson & Holyfield aren't hype. Tyson was a boy (barely past a teenager at 20 years and 4 months) fighting men. How can that ever be HYPE? lol

And Holyfield is the very definition of a warrior.

WHAT? They (Tyson/Holyfield/Lewis) knock bums out quickly "and that earns them hype, having hype adds to greatness"???? Are you Farmboxer's brother? Really?

So, if the Klits weren't around and say, Sam Peter was the champ and Sam talked a bunch of **** he could get to be an ATG? It wouldn't matter that he was limited, slow, and out of shape. If he could bludgeon his way to narrow victories over the collection of bums in the division we would ignore his shortcomings, hype him to the heavens, and annoint him as a boxing god at the same level as past greats?


You don't seem to realize how many boxers are basically standing upon the shoulders of Ali in that his moves and skill were major influences and watched by most of the boxers that followed him. The man set the modern standard for the past many generations of footwork and hand speed rarely, if ever, seen in a man of his size.

But, if Ali was fighting nothing but bums then he would be catching a lot of flack for it. If quality large athletes were all playing other sports people would be saying "yeah you're good Ali but there are fifty guys that would be all over your ass and it is a pity they aren't boxing". In his case, he might say "I'm why they are in other sports". Unfortunately, no one is ever gonna believe that about the Klitschkos based upon what we see in the ring. It might help if they said that though. Maybe you do have a small point to make.


Enjoy your day.

 

So I guess because Chagaev doesn't have the body of Haye he's soft.
atsch

When Lewis got to them they were hype. Holyfield wasn't a warrior, and Tyson wasn't a bad ass.

Having big fights and exciting fights adds to their greatness.

Wlad could KO1 every opponent and it's called a weak division.

Put the same Wlad and he's exchanges, goes down, gets up and wins in fights. His wins are greater than just KO 1s.

Ali talked the **** and backed up what he said. That only added to the aura of himself.

Sam won some dominating fights and had close ones but still won, yes he would be hyped, if had a career of this throughout. It would depend how far he went with what but he would be up there.

If Wlad talked **** and won in brawls, he would be considered greater than what he is now.

Of course he did. I never stated he didn't.

What made the people he fought so good? Why were they deemed so good? Because everyone was beating everyone and Ali was beating all of them?

Ali beat two prime HOFers in their prime. Foreman became a HOFer later on. (I know theres also Quarry but )



Quarry was considered a great win for Ali why? He never won a championship. Lost a lot of his major fights.

Because he was exciting, add that top Ali talking ****. You make a great build up. Deliver = Great.

 

The era of HW's Ali fought is unquestionably the deepest in the history of the sport.

Comparing that era to now is like comparing Formula 1 racing to chariot races.

 

Most of todays HWs are a lot of bigger than that era. Most.

They aren't going to look at fluid or skilled as the past.

I was comparing one victory in that era for Ali to something else.

I wasn't comparing era to era.

 

I know you wern't mate, just trying to point out the talent depth. It's really hard to gauge the era's head to head for the points you mention.

But we're a very size biassed mentality as boxing fans.

Jess Willard - 6'61/2, 245 lbs
Jack Dempsey - 6'1" - 187 1/2 lbs

Look what happened there...