Whatever happened to Liston/Clark on youtube, in colour? It was up there for seemingly the briefest of times before they must have flexed their muscles to make it disappear. (Ditto for the complete colour footage of Martin/Liston.) Are these versions currently on-line anywhere? (I suppose it doesn't matter much, as they'll eventually pop up again anyway.) Anyhow, a couple of things stood out in my impressions of Liston/Clark. Comments were made about Sonny's belaboring himself, huffing and puffing as the match progressed. That seemed to be the most obvious indicator of passing time in his case. (Did Liston smoke?) He talks willingly with Cosell after the win about taking on Quarry. When Foreman got asked about facing Jerry next following one of his early wins, he seems a little more reserved and reluctant about the idea. Today, George says he purposely avoided Quarry. That could be dismissed as respectful homage to a fallen warrior. But to see the way George responded at the time whenever an interviewer broached the subject of GF next taking on Jerry lends some credence to Foreman's later claim. In contrast, Sonny himself brought up the idea of facing Quarry after Clark, something I have not heard Foreman do in any of his post-fight interviews. Obviously, ABC thought very highly of Henry Clark's prospects to allow Liston to return to network television against him. One really does have to wonder what Clark might have achieved with a top shelf corner and first rate advice. The fact is that ABC got nearly seven total solid rounds of action out of Sonny. (And in living colour!) Considering how brief, or otherwise unsatisfying, the outcomes of many of his other fights had been, this not only lent a little boost to his career, but Clark's as well. Too bad Clark didn't try to emulate Ali for this one. Henry was already a 12 round veteran, a distance the aging Sonny had only gone nearly a decade earlier with Machen. By round ten, Liston might have been sucking fumes. (Not to suggest Clark might have won, but simply provide an interesting close.)
Quarry carried a good amount of power but wasn't a really big puncher, but then again, neither was Martin, so yeah... i'd consider it a live possibility for Quarry to stop Liston. Of course, Quarry could fall apart one way or another (mentally, cuts, you name it...), but i think he'd pull out the big win in this one.
It's not unreasonable. Let's remember, though, that there are 18 months between this fight and Martin, seven fights too. At Sonny's time of life, that's plenty.
I think Liston beats Quarry on cuts even in the late 1960s like he did to wepner. Though Quarry did well against big plodding slower sluggers(which is what a near 40 year old sonny became), liston still had that awesome jab and very sound fundamental skills.
Liston was barely training for most of those bouts, but he was lifting that liquor and probably was an in cognito smack addict. And it was beginning to show in a big way on his face and on his body as he aged. Nevertheless, he was unnaturally strong and highly skilled for a HW. He also could cut the hell out Quarry like he did Wepner, but aside from that very real chance, I'd join CP and favor Quarry too after '68.
A couple of intesting post scripts: After he beat McMurray, Liston commented on the prospect of a bout against Frazier: Ill beat [Frazier], he said. I wont have to chase him. Itll be like shooting fish in a barrel. Liston-Wepner was also being considered an eliminator for a bout against Quarry. The fact is, but for the Martin bout, Liston was getting grass-roots attention as a serious contender. He was on the rise, despite being frozen out after that fiasco in Maine. The Martin bout set him back in a big way and I suspect that Frazier's people were like "whew!".
I'm actually positively surprised that i still support my words of more than a year ago on this page.
Not to open yet ANOTHER can of worms..... but i think it's somewhat speculative to suggest Frazier (or his people) were happy when Liston lost. I mean, they matched him with Bonavena, who, rightfully or not, was ranked in the top10 unlike Liston during that time, and took the re-match as well, despite him nearly being stopped the first time. Again, it's possible, but i find the likelyhood of promoters not being happy in putting their money on the line for someone who can lay down at any point, and the idea of matching Frazier with up and coming, name fighters, more likely.
Of course it is speculative, but speculation is okay as long as people don't start insisting it is fact. I think that any manager with a young fighter would be pleased if they were able to avoid a veteran ex champion with a massive punch who is not a massive draw without facing accusations of ducking. I pick Frazier, but I suspect it's a problem nobody needs, which you hint at in the second part of your post.
Liston got back into the top 10 though Pontius...In fact I believe Liston was robbed of a chance in WBA elimination tournament....Although old, I think Liston had a very good punchers chance to win that WBA elimination tournament...especially if he got the right matches. Its been said Yank Durham went nowhere near Sonny liston in the late 1960s, kept frazier far away from him.